Hadriel,

I am not expecting all problems to be solved, just to not introduce new
ones.

I believe that allowing a proxy to include a session-id header will
introduce more problems than it solves.

I know that we have to work with B2BUAs, and I understand the sentiment
behind getting rid of them all together. The ietf work tends to preclude
handling by B2BUAs but based upon the RFC3261 definition of a B2BUA as a
concatenation of the UAC and UAS then all the ietf specifications have
to ensure is that each Request can be routed to the correct B2BUA and
then it is up to the B2BUA to ensure that it performs the correct
actions for the end-to-end service.

Based upon RFC3261 a B2BUA MUST map the call-id as a Call-id MUST be
globally unique. As a B2BUA is a UAS/UAC the dialogs on either side of
the B2BUA are different dialogs and must have different Call-ids.

The major issue which currently occurs is that a PUI is used to try and
route a request which should be directed to specific UA, e.g. when
referencing an extant dialog. To reach the specific UA the Contact
should be used and if a B2BUA maps the Contact as well as the Call-id
then the new Request should route to the B2BUA which can perform its
'magic' to provide the end-to-end service.

The problem at present is that B2BUA behavior is not defined and many
implemented B2BUAs will not perform the correct actions to provide the
end-to-end service.

Ian Elz

System Manager
DUCI LDC UK
(Lucid Duck)

Office: + 44 24 764 35256
gsm: +44 7801723668
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-----Original Message-----
From: Hadriel Kaplan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: 28 November 2008 18:22
To: Ian Elz; Dan Wing; James M. Polk
Cc: SIP List
Subject: RE: [Sip] FW: I-D Action:draft-kaplan-sip-session-id-00.txt


I appreciate wanting to solve all possible scenarios (who doesn't! :),
but I am fairly confident there is no possible solution to solve all
possible scenarios.  I am also fairly certain we can't even anticipate
or document all possible scenarios.

ISTM the only way to solve all possible scenarios is to have all B2BUA's
stop changing call-id's and tags - in fact, to not have B2BUA's at all.
Because that is the assumption all RFC uses of callid+tags have made so
far.

At this most recent IETF there appeared to be consensus that the real
world has B2BUA's... LOTS of B2BUA's, of various
flavors/roles/behaviors, from many vendors.  And there appeared to be
consensus that we should try to make things work with them, as much as
pragmatically possible.

> -----Original Message-----
> Having something incomplete may be worse than nothing. We may have a
> scenario where the partial solution gets implemented and then it will
be
> impossible to implement a final solution as you are required to be
> backward compatible to the partial solution.

I can't argue that some future mechanism can't be better than the
session-id mechanism, obviously.  But I would point out the session-id
mechanism would not prevent future mechanisms, any more than current
call-id+tag usage prevents the session-id mechanism.  It would be a "if
session-id match fails, then try this new thing if you understand it",
or it could even be a "try this new thing first, and only if that fails
or you don't understand it then try this session-id thing".  Every
extension to SIP can have those properties as far as I know.  It just
may need a parameter or new header to accomplish it.

But I also don't want to spend 4 years trying to come up with and
standardize a perfect solution, and have the problem last for those 4
years plus whatever time it takes to actually deploy the new solution.
I'd rather have running code in weeks or months, and deployment as soon
as possible - even if it means only some of the scenarios are covered
but not all scenarios.  (and that's not a comment against your comments
- I'm just noting that's how long things take when they're anything more
than really simple)

-hadriel
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