Hi John,

Thanks for all your feedback thus far on this topic. I have a couple
comments below [MB].

Mary.

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
Elwell, John
Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 11:31 AM
To: Hans Erik van Elburg
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Sip] Issue 3 - two tags (was RE:
I-DACTION:draft-rosenberg-sip-target-uri-delivery-01.txt


 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hans Erik van Elburg [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: 13 March 2009 14:52
> To: Elwell, John
> Cc: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [Sip] Issue 3 - two tags (was RE: 
> I-DACTION:draft-rosenberg-sip-target-uri-delivery-01.txt
> 
> It knows when it rewrites the Request-URI due to a location lookup -->

> tag "aor".
> It knows (is configured to) when it rewrites the Request-URI with a 
> value that leads the request to target with a different identity then 
> the one that has been replaced --> tag new entry "istarget".
> It knows when it rewrites the Request-URI with a value and this leads 
> to the first History-Info entry being recorded --> tag "istarget".
[JRE] It does not know that this is the first target, because upstream
nodes may have retargeted without inserting H-I. In any case, the To
header field URI is the first target, so we don't need that anyway.
[MB] John is correct. There is no rule about tagging the first
History-Info entry. It may be tagged if the next node changes the
request-URI via a service lookup or some other manner such as
configuration.[/MB]

I can accept that a proxy might know, having done a LS look-up, whether
the new URI is a registered contact or some other URI, and on that basis
it could choose whether or not to insert a single tag. I thought that
was the basis on which we agreed to go ahead with this updated to RFC
4424, rather than following the loose route draft. It is not clear to me
that a proxy would have enough information to make a 3-way choice.
[MB] My understanding is that there are just two ways in which the
request-URI changes if you are using loose routing. It's either changed
due to a lookup in a location server, whose information was populated by
the UA during registration, OR it is changed due to configuration data
(either system, user, etc.). In both cases, obviously, the proxy that is
doing this is responsible for the domain of the request-URI in the
incoming request. If it were not the case, then all the proxy can do is
forward the outgoing request to the next hop. So, I think that may be
where the concept of a 3rd choice comes in. But, as far as tagging, we
(as I understand it) at least were discussing the potential of two tags
only - i.e., further differentiating the cases that are currently all
captured by the "retarget" as defined in 4244bis, which is the same
mechanism that is specified in the target-uri document EXCEPT that
document was only capturing the service lookups, which we believe is
incorrect. [/MB]

John


> 
> /Hans Erik van Elburg
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 3:39 PM, Elwell, John 
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> 
>        Hans Erik,
>       
>       But how does a proxy know what to use? How does it know whether
the
>       received Request-URI, which it uses to query the LS, is a target
or 
> an
>       AoR? Does it need to scan back up the H-I chain to see whether
there 
> is
>       already an 'istarget' present, and if so use 'aor' instead of
>       'istarget'?
>       
>       John
>       
> 
> 
>       ________________________________
>       
>              From: Hans Erik van Elburg
> [mailto:[email protected]]
>       
>              Sent: 13 March 2009 14:33
>              To: Elwell, John
>              Cc: [email protected]
>       
>              Subject: Re: [Sip] Issue 3 - two tags (was RE:
>       I-DACTION:draft-rosenberg-sip-target-uri-delivery-01.txt
>       
>       
>              Hi John,
>       
>              Well that is simple one would use different tags for
different
>       type of entries, like in the example I already gave:
>       
>                 H-I:  Bfreephone; "istarget",\
>                      B,"aor"\
>                      contact-B
>       
>              Where the UAS interested in the initial target with which
it 
> was
>       addressed it would obtain the "istarget" tagged entry.
>              Where the UAS interested in the AOR  that was used to
address 
> it
>       would obtain the "aor" tagged entry.
>       
>              In simpler cases it could be that one entry holds the
"aor" as
>       well as the "istarget" tag.
>       
>              Of course the algorithm needs some work to make it
complete.
>       
>              /Hans Erik van Elburg
>       
>       
>       
>              On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 3:24 PM, Elwell, John
>       <[email protected]> wrote:
>       
>       
>                      Hans Erik,
>       
>                      Following your detailed description, it seems
that the
>       UAS serving a
>                      freephone number could receive one of the
following
>       (assuming H-I is
>                      supported by all relevant nodes):
>       
>                      1) H-I containing:
>                      - the freephone number (tagged);
>                      - the AoR (tagged);
>                      - the contact URI (not tagged).
>       
>                      Or
>       
>                      2) H-I containing:
>                      - the freephone number (tagged);
>                      - the contact URI (not tagged).
>       
>                      The latter would occur when the same proxy
translates
>       the freephone
>                      number (via the AoR) to the contact directly.
>       
>                      So how does this help the UAS to figure out the
>       freephone number? It
>                      seems the UAS would have to search back through
the
>       tagged entries
>                      looking for one that matches a freephone number
it
>       recognises? Does the
>                      tagging really add much value?
>       
>                      John
>       
>       
>                      ________________________________
>       
>                             From: [email protected]
>       [mailto:[email protected]] On
>                      Behalf Of Hans Erik van Elburg
>                             Sent: 12 March 2009 21:26
>                             To: Mary Barnes
>                             Cc: Hans Erik van Elburg; [email protected]
>                             Subject: Re: [Sip] Issue 3 - two tags (was
RE:
>                      
> I-DACTION:draft-rosenberg-sip-target-uri-delivery-01.txt
>       
>       
>       
>                             Inline...
>       
>                             /Hans Erik van Elburg
>       
>       
>       
>                             On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 7:10 PM, Mary
Barnes
>                      <[email protected]> wrote:
>       
>       
>                                     I think there is another solution
>       proposal that we
>                      should pursue for issue 3 identified in the email
>       summary sent by Shida
>                      earlier this week - I've snipped all the text
except 
> for
>       that issue and
>                      issue 2 in the summary below.  I do think the 
> discussion
>       has confounded
>                      the two issues and I think it ought to be
clarified 
> that
>       if we agree to
>                      the two tags per issue 3, that the options for
the
>       terminology MUST
>                      change. And, perhaps this is why the other
discussion
>       threads aren't
>                      progressing well.
>       
>       
>                             Agree.
>       
>       
>       
>                                     So, Hans Erick, I would like
>       clarification on as to your
>                      view on the solution:
>       
>                                     In general, ISTM that one of the
issues
>       we're having in
>                      this terminology thread is that you are
considering 
> the
>       solution to be
>                      that the hi-entries are tagged as they
>                                     are added to the request. 
>  And, just for
>       clarification
>                      from my perspective, that is NOT the solution in 
> either
>       4244bis or
>                      target-uri.
>       
>       
>                             The principle should be that the node that
has
>       the information
>                      about what type of rewrite is performed should
add the
>       tag. (This is
>                      done by the current target-uri draft allthough
the
>       solution is not
>                      complete.)
>       
>                             For the freephone service, that would be
the
>       freephone service.
>                      For the AOR that is the home proxy.
>       
>                             Assume that the freephone service receives
an
>       INVITE  request
>                      that either
>                             1. received request contains History-Info 
> header
>       that contains
>                      the freephone number (as in R-URI) as last entry,
THEN
>       when rewriting
>                      the Request-URI it has to tag that existing
received
>       entry AND add the
>                      new entry with the new value of the Request-URI.
(I
>       think that was how
>                      History-Info works right.)
>                             2. received request contains History-Info 
> header
>       that does not
>                      contain the freephone number as last entry, THEN
when
>       rewriting the
>                      Request-URI it has add an entry with the
freephone
>       number and tag that
>                      entry AND add the new entry with the new value of
the
>       Request-URI.
>                             3. received request does not contain a
>       History-Info header, THEN
>                      when rewriting the Request-URI it has to add an
entry
>       with the freephone
>                      number and tag that entry AND add the new entry
with 
> the
>       new value of
>                      the Request-URI.
>       
>                             After forwarding this request it arrives
at the
>       home proxy:
>                             1. received request contains History-Info 
> header
>       that contains
>                      the AOR (as in R-URI) as last entry, THEN when 
> rewriting
>       the Request-URI
>                      it has to tag that existing received entry AND
add the
>       new entry with
>                      the new value of the Request-URI i.e. 
> the registered
>       contact. (I think
>                      that was how History-Info works right.)
>                             2. received request contains History-Info 
> header
>       that does not
>                      contain the AOR (as in R-URI) as last entry, THEN
when
>       rewriting the
>                      Request-URI it has add an entry with the AOR and
tag
>       that entry AND add
>                      the new entry with the new value of the
Request-URI 
> i.e.
>       the registered
>                      contact.
>                             3. received request does not contain a
>       History-Info header, THEN
>                      when rewriting the Request-URI it has to add an
entry
>       with the AOR as in
>                      the Request-URI and tag that entry AND add the
new 
> entry
>       with the new
>                      value of the Request-URI i.e. the registered
contact..
>       
>       
>                                     I don't view it as a problem 
> necessarily
>       if you'd like
>                      to pursue an alternate solution, we just need to
be
>       clear that's what
>                      you're advocating. In that case, I would agree
the
>       "retarget" is not an
>                      appropriate tag for the entries, as you don't
know at
>       the point in time
>                      that you add an hi-entry that it will be
retargeted. 
> In
>       the case of this
>                      approach to the solution, you do have to alter
the
>       mechanism for
>                      determining the hi-entry that your services would
want
>       to use. You would
>                      need to skip the most recent/last hi-entry (as
that
>       would contain the
>                      same as the Request-URI in the incoming request),

> since
>       it would be
>                      tagged if you use this solution approach.
>       
>       
>                             Yes, but only if the previous proxy added
it. 
> As
>       History-Info is
>                      optional one never knows really.
>       
>       
>       
>                                     Thus, you'd have to take the next
>       hi-entry that you find
>                      that has the desired "tag".  I will posit that we

> could
>       accomplish this
>                      solution without any changes to 4244 by just 
> registering
>       new SIP URI
>                      parameter(s).   And,  that's not to say 
> we shouldn't do
>       a 4244bis as
>                      there are other issues to address in that
document, 
> but
>       that allows the
>                      target-uri to describe a solution that makes use
of
>       4244bis "as is".
>       
>       
>       
>                             Are you proposing to decouple the
target-uri 
> and
>       the 4244bis
>                      discussion?
>       
>       
>                                     So, feedback on this specific
point 
> (from
>       Hans Erik and
>                      others) would be appreciated.
>       
>       
>       
>                                     Mary.
>       
>       
>       
>       
>       
>       
>       
>       
> 
> 
> 
_______________________________________________
Sip mailing list  https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sip
This list is for NEW development of the core SIP Protocol Use
[email protected] for questions on current sip Use
[email protected] for new developments on the application of sip
_______________________________________________
Sip mailing list  https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sip
This list is for NEW development of the core SIP Protocol
Use [email protected] for questions on current sip
Use [email protected] for new developments on the application of sip

Reply via email to