At 02:31 PM 9/09/00 +1100, Angus Lees wrote:
>On Sat, Sep 09, 2000 at 11:40:14AM +1100, Matt Allen wrote:
> > On the programming side of things, This is what *i* mostly do and
> > all I think uni would have done for me is put me back 3-4 years.
> > The question I ask is "Could uni have taught me how to write PHP and
> > HTML". I guess sort of, maybe in the basics but it still would have
> > taken 3-4 years :)
<snip>
As someone completing their final semester of a BSc Comp. Sci. I have to
agree with Angus. Uni aims to teach you general techniques and concepts as
opposed to specific languages. From my experience, Macquarie Uni doesn't
have the "packer" problem. Over the years (and I've been there for a fair
few now) I have seen the tools change, but the ideas stay the same.
From my first year programming experience of Pascal & mSQL when I was
still aiming for a degree in Chemistry to when I decided to pursue a Comp
Sci Degree and found the later part of the 1st year component changed from
Pascal to Eiffel in an attempt to introduce OO from early on. They were
still teaching you the general concepts, ADT's, recursion etc etc (you all
know the stuff so I won't rattle it all off). During my time working my way
towards a degree we used languages such as the ones mentioned above, as
well as moving to a unix environment from 2nd year onwards with languages
such as C++, Oracle, DLX (to learn assembly), Prolog & Java.
But they were just that.. tools. The concepts I've learnt turn learning a
new language into a simple case of flicking through the appropriate
O'reily's to learn the syntax and within a few days you are writing code
fairly proficiently (ie without having to constantly refer to the book) for
which ever language you need. I've done that now with perl, PHP and
VBscript (for ASP's)(yes I know, blurgh yukky MS code but it got me web dev
exp.) for my job working for the uni.
I'm not saying university is the only way to "get it" but it certainly
provides a structured way of learning how to "get it" and it has worked for
me. Others prefer different approaches to learning the same things I'm
sure. I certainly believe that if the person has the potential to "get it"
they just have to find the right method for them. The added bonus of a Uni
is that often they have job vacancies on campus that help you gain job
related experience (mainly in IT though) to get the groundwork that Gus was
talking about.
I'll leave out the blatant "I'll be graduating and finishing my current job
in Feb and will have 1yrs exp under my belt if anyone needs a worker" spiel
out for now :)
Paul
>we all know that there are those who "get it", and those that
>don't. if someone "gets it" they don't learn *a* language, they learn
>the general techniques (/idioms) and concepts appropriate to a
>particular style of language. learning a new language then becomes
>flicking to the appendix on syntax at the back of the relevant
>o'reilly.
>
>of course a uni course wouldn't (or shouldn't) teach you "how to write
>PHP and HTML". thats not what uni is for.
>
>unfortunately uni's are now filled with packers, since they are by far
>the majority. the curricula and funding are controlled by packers who
>want to "see results" and don't understand that someone who comes out
>of a uni course *shouldn't* know how to do anything specific.
>
>if you still want a "classical" education, you have to go to a uni and
>look for it. they are still there if you find the right group of
>people, the right subjects and keep yourself suitably distanced from
>the actual details of the material being presented. regular
>conversations with groups of like-minded people, prompted by the
>opinion and explanation of an "expert", is by far the fastest way to
>truly learn.
>
>i've worked with a few, and its a very sad thing to meet someone who
>"gets it", but hasn't been given the groundwork they need meet their
>potential.
>
>don't go to uni to prepare for a job. if that is your expectation, a
>short course at TAFE will save you money, time and frustration.
>
>
>and hire someone who "gets it" over someone who doesn't every single
>time. regardless of paper qualifications.
>
>
></esoteric>
>
>--
> - Gus
>
> ("Free software meets Buddhist enlightenment" religion anyone?)
>
>
>--
>SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/
>More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
-----------------------------------------------
Paul Robinson
Web Developer / Programmer
Centre for Flexible Learning
Macquarie University
NSW 2109, Australia
Voice: +61 2 9850 8424
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-----------------------------------------------
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