On Fri, 02 Apr 2010 17:32:44 +1100 David Andresen <[email protected]> wrote:
> G'day all > > Has this been covered in Australia? > > Could this happen in Australia? > > http://immi.is/?l=en&p=intro > > David Well, it has been considered to some extent. In Dow Jones and Company Inc v Gutnick [2002] HCA 56 the High Court allowed Gutnick to sue for an internet article published in a service provided by Dow Jones. The servers were located in the USA. Some slight cause for optimism: the Court emphasised that the publication was one that was by subscription only. Therefore Dow Jones **knew** that it would be read in Australia. You can see the case at: http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/cth/high_ct/2002/56.html A very slender ray of hope though. Alan > > > > On Fri, 2010-04-02 at 14:37 +1100, [email protected] wrote: > > Send slug mailing list submissions to > > [email protected] > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > [email protected] > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > [email protected] > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of slug digest..." > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. Re: SLUG Membership decline (meryl) > > 2. Re: Which bank doesn't use Linux servers? (Martin Visser) > > 3. Re: SLUG Membership decline (Heracles) > > 4. Re: Re: Time Pedantry (Daniel Pittman) > > 5. Re: SLUG Membership decline (John Ferlito) > > 6. Re: Re: Time Pedantry (Jake Anderson) > > 7. Re: Why so snooty? Re: [SLUG] Which bank doesn't use Linux > > servers? (Jake Anderson) > > 8. Re: SLUG Membership decline (Adrian Chadd) > > email message attachment > > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > > > From: meryl <[email protected]> > > > To: [email protected] > > > Subject: Re: [SLUG] SLUG Membership decline > > > Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2010 12:10:38 +1100 > > > > > > On Fri, 02 Apr 2010 08:14:03 +1100 > > > jon <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > 1. Make it possible to obtain and renew membership online > > > > > > Yes, I'd become a member if I could do it online or via snail > > > mail. > > > > > > > 2. Take advantage of the increasing interest in Linux on the > > > > desktop by setting up an Applications SIG and/or focussing on > > > > applications at some events. ........... So most of the talks > > > > and events scheduled by SLUG hold no interest for me. > > > > > > Here! Here! I totally agree, the majority of list of 2009 > > > presented talks appeared to be waaay too techy to entice me to > > > come along and SLUGlets talks appear to be too short to offer > > > anything substantial to take away & use. I raised this same issue > > > about a year ago (iirc), & I mentioned that LUV's plans for > > > Software Freedom Day http://softwarefreedomday.org/melb looked > > > like a very appealing program of talks and workshops & that I'd > > > be really keen to see something like that organised on a regular > > > basis, at SLUG-meets, for us Sydney-siders. > > > > > > > * New and upgraded applications demonstrated and discussed > > > > * Distros compared and evaluated > > > > * Using Linux with various peripherals -- scanners, printers, > > > > tablets, multiple screens > > > > * Bash programming techniques -- but keeping it simple > > > > * OpenOffice techniques and macros > > > > * GIMP, Inkscape, Scribus techniques > > > > > > In addition to the above, (a very good list Jon!) I'd also like > > > to see basic/beginning Python, basic/beginning Rails/Ruby, & > > > troubleshooting problems; i.e. using run levels, wireless setup > > > etc... > > > > > > cheers, > > > Meryl > > > > > email message attachment > > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > > > From: Martin Visser <[email protected]> > > > To: [email protected] > > > Subject: Re: [SLUG] Which bank doesn't use Linux servers? > > > Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2010 12:17:37 +1100 > > > > > > I have to agree with Daniel. shutting them down is the safe > > > option. Having a service unavailable through the wee hours is far > > > preferable then say having to undo a whole of transactions that > > > inadvertantly get run twice (think of all the automated payment > > > systems scheduled to run at certain times). A bank even has to > > > consider the connections to other financial institutions and > > > whether their applications behave properly. > > > > > > Also you could almost guarantee that while the core transaction > > > processing is on a old-fashioned mainfram, the will more than > > > likely have one of pretty much every platform doing some part of > > > their business applications. ( I actually worked on a project > > > that was going to bring in a new Java on UNIX platform a few > > > years ago, unfortunately it was put on ice 6 months in). > > > > > > Regards, Martin > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 3:39 PM, Daniel Pittman > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Jake Anderson <[email protected]> writes: > > > > > Jim Donovan wrote: > > > > >> I noticed the following on the Commonwealth netbank site > > > > >> this morning: > > > > >> > > > > >>> NetBank, Mobile Banking and Telephone Banking will be > > > > >>> unavailable > > > > between > > > > >>> 2am and 5am EST on Sunday 4 April 2010 to allow for the > > > > >>> changeover from Australian Eastern Daylight Savings time to > > > > >>> Australian Eastern Standard time. Please take this > > > > >>> timeframe into consideration when completing > > > > your > > > > >>> banking. For updates during this change, please visit: > > > > >>> www.commbank.com.au/update. Please press NEXT to access > > > > >>> NetBank. > > > > >> > > > > >> Assuming it wasn't an April Fool joke, perhaps it means > > > > >> their databases > > > > use > > > > >> local time and the logic won't permit transactions to be > > > > >> entered out of order such as might appear to be if one > > > > >> happened just before the > > > > changeover > > > > >> time and another less than an hour later. > > > > >> > > > > >> How quaint! I remember hearing once that Commonwealth Bank > > > > >> servers were always rebooted on Sundays so they'd be less > > > > >> likely to go down during > > > > the > > > > >> week. > > > > > > > > > > Odds are its more to do with their internal applications > > > > > which are > > > > probably > > > > > written on cobalt running on CP/M machines or something > > > > > equally modern. Your probably lucky they even know time zones > > > > > exist ;->. > > > > > > > > My money would be on the very boring option, paranoia: > > > > > > > > If you shut down as many of these systems as possible during > > > > the change over, > > > > then those systems *can't* go wrong — because they are doing > > > > nothing. > > > > > > > > If you leave them running then, hey, maybe something breaks. > > > > > > > > So, if you want to look at the cost/benefit analysis the cost > > > > of a few hours > > > > outage overnight is pretty low, especially if you can schedule > > > > it well in advance, and even more so if you can do some other > > > > maintenance work at the same time. > > > > > > > > Meanwhile, no risk of things going wrong during the > > > > change-over, which is always a huge PR fiasco even if nothing > > > > really bad happens. > > > > > > > > Daniel > > > > > > > > If it was my call, I would probably do the same thing. Way too > > > > many developers get simple things like "this day has no 2:30AM" > > > > or "this day has two 2:00AMs" wrong. > > > > -- > > > > ✣ Daniel Pittman ✉ [email protected] ☎ > > > > +61 401 155 707 > > > > ♽ made with 100 percent post-consumer electrons > > > > -- > > > > SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - > > > > http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: > > > > http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html > > > > > > > > > email message attachment > > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > > > From: Heracles <[email protected]> > > > To: [email protected] > > > Subject: Re: [SLUG] SLUG Membership decline > > > Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2010 12:19:10 +1100 > > > > > > Heracles wrote: > > > > Alan L Tyree wrote: > > > > > > > >> On Fri, 02 Apr 2010 09:38:35 +1100 > > > >> Heracles <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> > > > >> <SNIP> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>> {note to Jon: forget Scribus, it still crashes regularly. I > > > >>> have been trying to use the "stable" version to produce a > > > >>> magazine I write for another computer club and had to go back > > > >>> to using OOo as Scribus crashed almost every time I tried to > > > >>> use the story editor to change the text a little. It needs a > > > >>> lot more development to be usable.} > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >> What version of Scribus are you using? I have used it a fair > > > >> amount, but always the ScribusNG package. I have never had any > > > >> problem with it at all. First on Debian Lenny, recently on > > > >> Debian Squeeze. A quick look at the Ubuntu forums didn't turn > > > >> up any recent complaints about crashes. > > > >> > > > >> Also, the Scribus website has just announced a bug-fix version > > > >> 1.3.6. > > > >> > > > >> Since LyX/LaTeX have usually been sufficient for my publishing > > > >> needs, I have never been a heavy user of it, so maybe I just > > > >> haven't hit the wall. Still, seems surprising to me since I > > > >> have had very good results when I have used it. > > > >> > > > >> Cheers, > > > >> Alan > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Hi Alan, > > > > Version is 1.3.3.14(Stable) > > > > I'll upgrade to 1.3.6 and see if that helps. My magazine is 24 > > > > pages, so it should not be a problem for even a simple DTP. > > > > Thanks > > > > Heracles > > > > > > > Just finished the download. I'll see how it goes. Funny thing > > > happened, I was able to run two instances of Synaptic both > > > downloading different programs in different windows > > > simultaneously. It usually won't allow this. > > > > > > Heracles > > > > > email message attachment > > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > > > From: Daniel Pittman <[email protected]> > > > Reply-to: [email protected] > > > To: [email protected] > > > Subject: Re: [SLUG] Re: Time Pedantry > > > Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2010 12:21:58 +1100 > > > > > > Rick Welykochy <[email protected]> writes: > > > > Nick Andrew wrote: > > > > > > > >> Indeed. The Earth's rotational period does vary slightly > > > >> (effect of earthquakes notwithstanding). One reason time is > > > >> hard to deal with sensibly is our insistence on synchronising > > > >> it to the mean solar day. > > > > > > > > // off topic Easter Time time ramblings > > > > Isaac Asimov figured it out years ago. From memory ... > > > > > > > > Create a new calendar with 52 weeks of 7 days = 364 days. Add > > > > one extra day, called World Day, at the end - 365 days. World > > > > Day does not have a day of the week. In this way, every date > > > > falls on the same day of the week in every year. > > > > > > Note that this doesn't address the GMT/UT[C01] issue, which is > > > all about the relationship between local time and > > > time-as-seen-by-astronomers, or perhaps more clearly, time as it > > > relates to the actions of things other than our own planet > > > rotating. > > > > > > > For leaps years, add an extra Leap day after World Day. It too > > > > has no day of the week. To make things precise, every 100 > > > > years, there is no Leap Day, but every 400 years there is. > > > > > > > > That pretty well matches up the solar year to the earth's > > > > rotation. > > > > > > I don't find this convincing, FWIW, since it doesn't address > > > issues like "every five days" in a terribly meaningful day. All > > > it does is translate those into one of two problems: > > > > > > Either you have "every five days, except once a year when it is > > > six or seven days between instances", or "every five days, but > > > which day changes every year." > > > > > > Unfortunately, we can't just stop the world for world day, which > > > means that we still have unpredictable day/date matching. > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > > I don't recall Asimov dealing with the tetchy problem of > > > > daylight time. > > > > > > IIRC he thought it was a silly idea, as were the politically > > > motivated time zones. Both views are ... arguably true. :) > > > > > > Daniel > > > > > email message attachment > > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > > > From: John Ferlito <[email protected]> > > > To: meryl <[email protected]> > > > Cc: [email protected] > > > Subject: Re: [SLUG] SLUG Membership decline > > > Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2010 13:15:35 +1100 > > > > > > On Fri, Apr 02, 2010 at 12:10:38PM +1100, meryl wrote: > > > > > * New and upgraded applications demonstrated and discussed > > > > > * Distros compared and evaluated > > > > > * Using Linux with various peripherals -- scanners, printers, > > > > > tablets, multiple screens > > > > > * Bash programming techniques -- but keeping it simple > > > > > * OpenOffice techniques and macros > > > > > * GIMP, Inkscape, Scribus techniques > > > > > > > > In addition to the above, (a very good list Jon!) I'd also like > > > > to see basic/beginning Python, basic/beginning Rails/Ruby, & > > > > troubleshooting problems; i.e. using run levels, wireless setup > > > > etc... > > > > > > So this is a very good list of talks. But who is going to > > > volunteer to give them? > > > > > > The problem SLUG has had over the last few years is that we have > > > had a new influx of "users" rather than the old band of "techies". > > > > > > The problem as I see it though is that only the "techies" are > > > willing to actually present. > > > > > > The SLUG committee I'm sure would take up any of the suggested > > > topics in a heart beat if anyone was prepared to present them. > > > > > > So I suppose I would call out to the new crowd of "users" that > > > have joined SLUG in the last few years. If you want to make SLUG > > > more relevant for you then you need to actually stand up and > > > become a part of it. > > > > > > Things you can do > > > > > > * Run for the committee > > > * Help the committee run meetings > > > > > > but most importantly offer to give a talk at slug. Even if it is > > > just a 10 minute talk on a cool feature you just discovered in > > > Inkscape last week. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > John > > > > > email message attachment > > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > > > From: Jake Anderson <[email protected]> > > > To: [email protected] > > > Subject: Re: [SLUG] Re: Time Pedantry > > > Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2010 13:33:03 +1100 > > > > > > We should all just use unix timestamp for all date/time > > > communications and be done with it. > > > > > > There I fixed it, > > > http://thereifixedit.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/129138460976317329.jpg > > > Hail me as leader > > > > > > Daniel Pittman wrote: > > > > Rick Welykochy <[email protected]> writes: > > > > > > > >> Nick Andrew wrote: > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>> Indeed. The Earth's rotational period does vary slightly > > > >>> (effect of earthquakes notwithstanding). One reason time is > > > >>> hard to deal with sensibly is our insistence on synchronising > > > >>> it to the mean solar day. > > > >> // off topic Easter Time time ramblings > > > >> Isaac Asimov figured it out years ago. From memory ... > > > >> > > > >> Create a new calendar with 52 weeks of 7 days = 364 days. Add > > > >> one extra day, called World Day, at the end - 365 days. World > > > >> Day does not have a day of the week. In this way, every date > > > >> falls on the same day of the week in every year. > > > >> > > > > > > > > Note that this doesn't address the GMT/UT[C01] issue, which is > > > > all about the relationship between local time and > > > > time-as-seen-by-astronomers, or perhaps more clearly, time as > > > > it relates to the actions of things other than our own planet > > > > rotating. > > > > > > > > > > > >> For leaps years, add an extra Leap day after World Day. It too > > > >> has no day of the week. To make things precise, every 100 > > > >> years, there is no Leap Day, but every 400 years there is. > > > >> > > > >> That pretty well matches up the solar year to the earth's > > > >> rotation. > > > > > > > > I don't find this convincing, FWIW, since it doesn't address > > > > issues like "every five days" in a terribly meaningful day. > > > > All it does is translate those into one of two problems: > > > > > > > > Either you have "every five days, except once a year when it is > > > > six or seven days between instances", or "every five days, but > > > > which day changes every year." > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, we can't just stop the world for world day, > > > > which means that we still have unpredictable day/date matching. > > > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > > > > > > >> I don't recall Asimov dealing with the tetchy problem of > > > >> daylight time. > > > > > > > > IIRC he thought it was a silly idea, as were the politically > > > > motivated time zones. Both views are ... arguably true. :) > > > > > > > > Daniel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > email message attachment > > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > > > From: Jake Anderson <[email protected]> > > > To: Rick Welykochy <[email protected]> > > > Cc: [email protected] > > > Subject: Re: Why so snooty? Re: [SLUG] Which bank doesn't use > > > Linux servers? > > > Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2010 13:47:32 +1100 > > > > > > Rick Welykochy wrote: > > > > Jake Anderson wrote: > > > > > > > >> The bank may well be pretty sure that nothing will go wrong > > > >> but given the cost/benefit ratio its prudent not to take the > > > >> chance that there is one line of code somewhere or another in > > > >> the many tens of millions they have that will freak out when > > > >> the clock goes backwards. > > > > > > > > What about ATMs? Will they be down for the count? > > > > If not, and the main systems are down, they must queue up > > > > transactions. The timestamps on those transactions will > > > > have to be handled correctly when the queue is processed. > > > > Including transactions during the hour the leaps back. > > > Just spoke to somebody "in the know" > > > netbank is shut down, all other services are unaffected (well > > > common services anyway). > > > > > > Her explanation is this. > > > All other transactions are processed in a batch at night, IF you > > > withdraw money at an ATM your account balance is immediately > > > debited but the transaction itself is just recorded. > > > This is presumably also when all the interests are calculated and > > > so on. Only on business nights are those transactions actually > > > processed to create a statement. > > > Netbank transactions however are processed "instantly". > > > As such it can cause issues when the time roles back. > > > > > > It probably also has something to do with the age of netbank, its > > > very very new as far as bank software goes. > > > > > > > > > Listening to the errors they have with processing and the like, > > > its enough to make me want to keep my money under the bed. > > > > > > > > > > > The same can be said about bank-to-bank and > > > > bank-to-international transactions. > > > > > > > > It seems like a problem they must already have to deal with. > > > > Transactions world wide into and out of Australia do not stop > > > > for an hour at 2:00 AM Easter Sunday, do they? > > > > > > > > Anyone working in the banking sector out there? > > > > > > > > cheers > > > > rickw > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > email message attachment > > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > > > From: Adrian Chadd <[email protected]> > > > To: meryl <[email protected]> > > > Cc: [email protected] > > > Subject: Re: [SLUG] SLUG Membership decline > > > Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2010 11:11:14 +0800 > > > > > > FYI: > > > > > > PLUG has had similar discussions and similar issues. > > > It may be worthwhile having the bodies discuss things informally > > > to see what ideas can be brainstormed. > > > > > > On Fri, Apr 02, 2010, meryl wrote: > > > > On Fri, 02 Apr 2010 08:14:03 +1100 > > > > jon <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > 1. Make it possible to obtain and renew membership online > > > > > > > > Yes, I'd become a member if I could do it online or via snail > > > > mail. > > > > > > > > > 2. Take advantage of the increasing interest in Linux on the > > > > > desktop by setting up an Applications SIG and/or focussing on > > > > > applications at some events. ........... So most of the > > > > > talks and events scheduled by SLUG hold no interest for me. > > > > > > > > Here! Here! I totally agree, the majority of list of 2009 > > > > presented talks appeared to be waaay too techy to entice me to > > > > come along and SLUGlets talks appear to be too short to offer > > > > anything substantial to take away & use. I raised this same > > > > issue about a year ago (iirc), & I mentioned that LUV's plans > > > > for Software Freedom Day http://softwarefreedomday.org/melb > > > > looked like a very appealing program of talks and workshops & > > > > that I'd be really keen to see something like that organised on > > > > a regular basis, at SLUG-meets, for us Sydney-siders. > > > > > > > > > * New and upgraded applications demonstrated and discussed > > > > > * Distros compared and evaluated > > > > > * Using Linux with various peripherals -- scanners, printers, > > > > > tablets, multiple screens > > > > > * Bash programming techniques -- but keeping it simple > > > > > * OpenOffice techniques and macros > > > > > * GIMP, Inkscape, Scribus techniques > > > > > > > > In addition to the above, (a very good list Jon!) I'd also like > > > > to see basic/beginning Python, basic/beginning Rails/Ruby, & > > > > troubleshooting problems; i.e. using run levels, wireless setup > > > > etc... > > > > > > > > cheers, > > > > Meryl > > > > -- > > > > SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - > > > > http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: > > > > http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html > > > > > -- > > SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ > > Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html > > > -- > SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ > Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html > -- Alan L Tyree http://www2.austlii.edu.au/~alan Tel: 04 2748 6206 -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
