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Watch for cuoncurrant logins and deny the second
login. ANd bill for throughput....who cares at that point.
JH
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 5:51
AM
Subject: Re: [smartBridges] Why use
PPPoE??
Here's a scenario (close to what I may be having):
2
friends (or brothers) who live in separate houses decide to pay for only 1
service, use the legitimate MAC address for the other friend and both are
online. If we add ppoe, wouldn't they still be able to just share the
login & pw? Can anything be done about
this?
Sevak
On Sun, 2003-09-28 at 22:26, Eje Gustafsson
wrote:
TWN> This is slightly OT...
TWN> FIRST...a little background:
TWN> I have a pure sB wireless network. ALL of my clients are connected via
TWN> an airBridge or airPoint. I obviously do not provide any information
TWN> about our network to my clients, nor do they have admin rights to the sB
TWN> device. Therefore, the network is pretty locked down...which does not
TWN> allow clients to sniff wireless traffic (without first cracking WEP)
TWN> because they can NOT put the sB device into promiscuous mode.
TWN> I will NEVER have the need to allow non-paying customers to access my
TWN> network either (hotspot webpage login).
TWN> I currently use WEP and MAC internal authentication (although I will
TWN> soon move to external RADIUS).
TWN> I deploy SOHO routers at EVERY client home which is located between the
TWN> sB device and the client internal network. I assign static IPs to EVERY
TWN> sB device and client router. Therefore, there are only 2 IPs seen from
TWN> any one of my clients (sB device and router).
TWN> My SOHO router that I deploy at EVERY client has web based admin
TWN> authorized from ONLY my NOC IP addresses. This allows me to not only
TWN> manage all the devices remotely, but it also allows me to PING the
TWN> internal network (beyond the sB device) to prove that the sB device is
TWN> passing traffic to the wired LAN. Piece of mind for me.
TWN> The SOHO routers have built-in PPPoE that I "could" enable if I want to.
TWN> My question is this....Why should "I" use PPPoE for "THIS" network?
Additional security.
TWN> 1. Does it provide more security? (not really, I think)
Absolutely.
TWN> 2. Or would the only reason be for bandwidth limiting (which I currently
TWN> can not do)?
That to.
TWN> I do NEEEEEED bandwidth limiting, but the new XO radios will do this.
TWN> So...really...does the use of PPPoE provide any greater level of
TWN> security?
Yes Sir sure does.
TWN> If someone manages to crack my WEP, then sniff someone's IP and MAC,
TWN> then bumps that client off the network and assumes their identity, would
TWN> PPPoE stop them from surfing? Who would really care at that point??
Cracking your WEP ain't to hard. Sniffing someone's IP and MAC isn't
that hard either... Now to the killer they don't need to bump the
client of the network to assume their identity. They could simply just
assume their identity and surf away with piece in mind.
As long as the client can't hear the thiefs radio then their router
will not complain about duplicate ip on the network it just assumes
the traffic that was sent to the ip/mac combo was someone attempting
to communicate with them and simply ignore it while the thief also
will get the traffic which is to him legit.
The thief will be surfing away stealing your service and you would
NEVER know about it.
PPPoE if their login have not been authorized they don't get an IP and
can not surf. Since you no longer is passing TCP traffic but PPPoE
traffic you have to have a special software to create the pppoe
tunnel. When you run PPPoE you don't even need to have a IP assign on
your routers ethernet interface that is to your clients because it's
all done over pppoe.
TWN> Does PPPoE use encrypted LOGIN?
Yes Sir. Encrypted logins so they have to capture the PPPoE login
frames and then be able to crack the username and password out of
those frames (pretty much impossible since it's done on a handshake
basis and the password is not reverse decryptable).
Also depending on the client and server you can even create a
encrypted pppoe tunnel so not only the login frames are encoded but
ALL traffic is encrypted as well..
Plus you can turn on compression as well and you can compress the
traffic between the clients and the server. Save you some bandwidth
there..
TWN> I just don't see the need right now.....any advice would be greatly
TWN> appreciated?
You could probably get away by doing what your doing without any
problems. But who knows you might not and the problem is that you will
almost NEVER be able to tell for sure if you been hacked.
Only way to tell is if you KNOW that a certain radio is offline and
yet the client is sending data OR your trying to manage a radio and
sometimes you have problem getting into the unit. Say if the hacker is
using a different brand of radio and you try to us SimpleMonitor on
your clients radio the hackers radio don't understand simplemonitor
and when you try to connect it might tell you failure to connect IF
the hackers radio responded first. But if the clients radio respond
first then you get your info.
Also if you look in the association list you might see that the remote
client identifies as say a DLINK instead of a smartbridges radio but
that is not a guarantee that you will see that (ones again depends on
what radio was fastest in their reply).
When you run pppoe you can set "only-one" just like on dailup so if
user A have successfully logged in he has to logoff before someone
else can login with user A's username and password. This way IF the
hacker get hold of it as long as user A is online the hacker can't use
it. If hacker get online then user A can't get online but then hey he
will call complain and you will take a look and see that he is already
online. You kick the user offline and he can get online then somewhat
later he calls again complain. Now you kick him offline but ask him to
turn of his radio and you see him getting back online even though his
radio is off.. HACKER ALERT!!!
Time to change that users password...
Best regards,
Eje Gustafsson mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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