Well, little did Mike and I know that we were getting so deep into theory over "suckage" factor. hahaahh Anyways, there are many angles to approach this. One- the mountain bike upright (rider style), with an extra turn around (use two turn arounds)so you get to "peddle" while next to the pilot. MAke sure there is an eyebolt or soemthing to make sure hte line guides onto the wheel only. then there is the upside down version of the same thing. remember, that it isnt the MAX speed that gets the plane up, but a parabola of the line and the forward motion on the plane that gets the plane to "kite" up. the upside down idea sounds pretty cool too, remember that the "drum" is much larger than a standard winch drum, so you dont need it to spin all that fast. in fact, all that the basic system would need to be boiled down to is a hand crank through a mountain bike wheel hub, secured tot he earth and crank via a wheel truing stand like those found in bike shops or cut from a broken bicycle, an eyebolt, a turn around a guy that wants his arms to get stronger and that's about it. something else that came into discussion with mike and I. How many of you guys out there have actually hand towed a plane up? handlaunch is easy, direct tow. I've seen guys tow large planes up for X country flights with their cars.... I think that an initial velocity factor would need to be figurerd intot hte equation for the plane to get moving fast. A good line stretch with a "peddling" start and a good throw of the plane when the line begins to stretch should do a good job. maybe even put a 5 foot piece of surgical tubing inline of a break of the winch line about 20 feet below the parachute. The tubing would absorb a lot of initial pull instead of the plane taking it at the hook point. This would stretch really well as the "cyclist" got a good peddle speed up. I almost think this is a necessity. Well, what do you all think about this? and for the group, how many have tried hand towing anythng? Dean RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

