First, I would have to agree on the Sonic over the Zagi for DSing. Pat designed it specifically for that purpose and it really outperforms the Zagi in a DSing situation. I took both my Zagi and Sonic up to Parker Mt.. to learn. The Zagi bounces around much more when it tries and blasts through the rotor. As mentioned, weight it down a bit and have plenty of tape on hand. Geeeez, you thought combat was tough on a plane, try hitting the ground at double the speed of normal flight!! OK, now for the good part. I was up at Parker Mt.. last Sunday and saw Pat testing a new DSing machine. It was it's first DSing flight test. Pat told me what the plane looks like, but I forgot the name of it. Basically the plane looks like a small fuse with a backwards sonic on top, except the leading edge is straight instead of "V" shaped. The TE is all Elevons and was created as an integral part of the wing's airfoil. The tail has no horizontal stab, but the vertical fin is quite large. Two servo ship, flies like a wing. Pat says that the most unusual part of the design is the CG is very far forward in relation to the wing. The first glide test he set it about 1/3 back as a start the plane just spun out of control backwards. After about 10oz of lead in the nose, he brought the CG about 2 inches back from the LE out of about 12 inches cord. The wings were also heavy and with all the lead, this made for a heavy ship if you were to hold it in your hands. The plane is all wing area. How does it fly? This thing is a rocket!! Pat commented that he never saw a foam plane fly that fast or retain as much energy. Now, I am not an expert on this, but I have seen the Sonic get into DS loops at Parker of 90mph on a gun, this thing was substantially faster and would not be surprised if it was going 125mph. I was mesmerized. Pat was putting on a show for us. He would loop one direction, then the next, even do vertical DS loops, then break away and zoom straight up a couple hundred feet. Rolls, spins, dives, the plane look like it handled well. With the TE being full elevons the response was very crisp, the roll rate was awesome. Watching the plane zoom skyward performing a quick half dozen rolls was incredible. One maneuver Pat pulls in to do some tight DSing loops, the plane accelerated to a blur, literally. Pat pulls out of it joking that he couldn't think that fast. I looked over at the other spectator wondering if he just saw what I did. The plane was moving to fast to think. You could really see the energy retention on landing. If you have ever been to Parker, the landing approach is on the backside, coming up the hill. Pat drove the plane down to the foothills and way off to the left to slow it down enough to land. Only the composite ships have to loop that big to slow down to land. You know, Pat has a sticker on the back of his truck that says "DS it will change your life." I live up in Bay Area now and few of the pilots I fly with have really seen DSing. There aren't any sites that really lend itself to it. The closest thing I have seen is Shell Ridge in Walnut Creek, but the back side of the slope is filled with 20ft trees. I saw an F3B plane take it fine but I am sure the trees reach up and grab the foamy stuff out of the air. All I can think is that I spent 25 years living in Valencia, CA and I didn't get into the sport until after I left :) Pat says that he has a bit more work to do on the plane. He wants the plane to DS as well inverted so he talked about putting spars both top and bottom to handle the stress. He figures the plane will be ready to sell sometime in October. All I can say is that the line forms behind me :) Jim Cubbage -----Original Message----- From: breck baldwin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, September 01, 2000 8:59 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [RCSE] Zagi DS trainer You might as well get a Bowman Sonic which is designed for DS--might as well get the faster Joe Wurts airfoil too. Put in HS-85 MGs add extra fiber tape in the center section TE b/c it will want to tear there from all the boinks in hard. Make provisions for ballasting. If you are going to fly in heavy conditions, 40+mph winds, then some spar changes might be called for--but ask Pat Bowman about that. Bandit looks solid too, building that now but have no direct experience with it, and it is technically a fused flying wing. Otherwise a 3-servo Bowman Commanche is pretty much a very solid standard DS trainer. The other cool thing you can do is cover the sonic in glass and tool dip plastic stuff. That will go quite fast, but Pat says it is more fragile. Glass ships (slope racers, composite TD ships, f3-B) are much easier to DS than foam because they retain energy much better, which means that your loops can be much bigger and still get the DS effect. This also means that you don't need to get as close to the ridge top or ground, and you penetrate the back side turbulance better don't need to optimize that path as much. Of course, one crash and you are done for. Unfortunate that the best 'trainers' are the most expensive/least boinkable, at least from a handling standpoint. I can kinda-sorta DS my Red Herring (5 oz 32" wing span unit of pure foamy fun), but one mistake and I am going for a walk down the hill. My Sonic is quite a bit more tolerant of flight path mistakes, but I have no way near the lattitude that the glass ships have. The tool dip trick does seem to speed up/increase energy retention while retaining some of the foamy bouncyness. That might be the best trainer configuration if you are going to stick with flying wings. Breck RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
