Sean, On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 7:56 PM, Sean DALY <[email protected]> wrote: > Sebastian, > > Our problem is the incoherence between the two previous versions of > SoaS and this one, and the incoherence with our marketing strategy > which is to promote a rich ecosystem of Activities for which Sugar is > the support.
I'm sorry, I didn't see much coherence between version 1 and version 2.... so not sure how we can continue that with version 3. Its a young project that is growing and maturing. I remember v2 as being massively unstable and needing 12 different respin versions of it to get something that was stable. Sebastian did a absolutely brilliant job but I remember him respinning it momentarily before it was announced at FUDCon due to some app breakage. SoaS 1 and 2 were rebuilt endlessly because so much was broken..... and if you look back to Fedora 1 to 2 to 3 there was massive churn..... and I've used "Fedora" since RHL 4.0 in 1995 so I do know what I'm talking about there! > We can't talk about new SoaS features or large > deployments, so there isn't news. Trying to get journalists interested > in helping us with recruitment will be an uphill climb. We need to > reach developers where they are, which is why I've suggested we > advertise for volunteer developers as we are quite more likely to > obtain recruitment results that way. So..... there's a couple of points above. One word... evolution.... Large deployments aren't the fault of SoaS v3 .... funnily enough it actually needs to be actually released before it can be deployed.... you seem to miss that point, and the fact that the lack of mass deployments doesn't reflect on the upcoming release but the past ones.... see point above about stability..... also note the Microsoft Windows 7 vs Vista issues.... I know you've referenced that before! Sebastian and I personally believe that v3 will be better for large deployments because its more stable. That is a feature! But to address further your point "We can't talk about new SoaS features" ...... there are new features..... LOTS..... but not in Sugar.... but that's not because of SoaS...... its because of upstream Sugar..... We have 3G support... that's a feature. There's massive underlying new features we get from Fedora 13.... native IPv6 anyone??? > And we need to reach educators. The installation and unfamiliarity > barriers of Sugar remain too formidable. That's why it's so important > to have a SoaS Creation Kit. But, we're bumping up against Fedora > limitations there. I am sure it has been a positive tradeoff from an > engineering point of view, but I am not at all sure from a wider > education-mission point of view. So where is this famed "SoaS Creation Kit" ???? And its not fricken well Fedora limitations.... they reach millions of people and then they use the same tools that RHEL and Centos and Oracle unbreakable whatever uses..... and what's more they don't need some half arsed boot CD thing which I've never been able to make work let alone use.... > Why don't we discuss this tomorrow in the marketing meeting? Hopefully > we can improve cooperation between the SoaS and Marketing teams, which > has been abysmal lately. No! lets not discuss it tomorrow. This release has been in this state for months and you leave it to the Fedora release date to ask for discussion about it..... I'm sorry you've missed the boat. Lets discuss it for the next release after this one comes out in a couple of weeks so we can try and work with you for SOAS-4. You keep mentioning that "I've disagreed with this and that" but on the SoaS list I've not seen any of the discussion..... and that is what we're talking about here..... > (By the way: I've mentioned previously that there are several reasons > why it's not a good idea to cite journalists by name on public lists; > it's better to cite their publications. In particular, some > journalists are curious about what is said about them, and on most > lists someone manages to have something nasty to say about a given > article, which doesn't help.) So this is documented in a wiki article with regards to marketing somewhere? I've lived with marketing people for 5 years.... I worked for a leading edge marketing company for half of that. But people forget things and things get lost in mailing lists.... you as the current marketing lead person should document the strategy somewhere (like the Fedora guys do) just in case for some reason suddenly your no longer here (my boss asked me today whether I had an urge to jump in front of a tube train....... life happens). Sean.... the problem that I have with Sugar marketing (is that just you?) is that you go "I've spoken about this" "i've mentioned this isn't good" but having watched open source VERY closely for 15 years and lived with marketing people for 5 years I've never met anyone that's just said "No I won't deal with this". GNOME desktop hasn't changed massively in the last god knows how many years and they manage to market "evolution over revolution" very well, and get all the press reviews even if its "the default theme looks nicer than the last" (and no that's not a quote).... they manage to use 3G support and stability as good features..... upstream Fedora support is a great feature.... one of the features of SOAS-4 will be a smaller foot print due to upstream GNOME.... that should be a good feature due to the 1.5 million XO-1s..... Think outside the box.... please don't stick your head in the sand.... Sugar is evolving.... Soas is evolving... we are barely a toddler.... Marketing should be dynamic and run with what we have.... To finish.... I've never before been in a situation in my 15 years in the tech industry where marketing has refused point blankly to market a product that is put in front of them while seeing what is going on in front of them and not speak out in the channels to do with that product (I've only recently subscribed to the marketing list as SoaS talk happens on the SoaS list.... what ever it is). Normally tech has to implement the shit that marketing has sold. So if marketing is going to dictate without input what SoaS technically should deliver you can count me out... I have a lot of stuff on my plate and enough to argue about with having to deal with people that are blinkered. There are a lot of massive improvements to SOAS-3..... be creative.... that is (apparently) what your suppose to do. Peter BTW I will be at POSSE and RH summit in June and FUDCon in Zurich in September if we want to have a SoaS marketing discussion.. and would be open to another option.... similar to the Fedora FADs if that helps us to articulate and be on the same page. _______________________________________________ SoaS mailing list [email protected] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/soas
