On Wed, 2015-09-09 at 12:46 +1100, David Leeming wrote: > Hi, > > Well my old Toshiba laptop for instance, a Qosmio i7, a few years old but was > a $2000 laptop when new. On this I can't boot and run SOAS. It never > completes booting, you go through the name, colour, gender, school grade but > then it just shows the blank screen with only the mouse cursor screen never > getting as far as the Sugar Home View.. > > Tested on a few of these - Lenovo Q190 desktop computer - using the 32 bit or > 64 bit version that worked (can't remember but we tried both), it boots OK > but freezes after starting a few activities. Could that be the activity > rather than the OS? > > As I said, on a very old Asus EEE PC 1005H model, it works very reliably > every time. > > Could it be the LinuxLive USB Creator installer that is to blame? > Hi David,
Quite possibly. LiLi was drawn to your attention because of apparent specific hardware issue in your OP. From the information you give, I am not certain which issues are due to "intermediaries" :) In testing a bunch of [older] hardware, this is what I would do. Get a [32 bit] SoaS image. Easier for others/collaborators with no Sugar experience, a (same version, F22 today) Fedora XFCE image. Burn the images to CD. To test machines with no CD, I would dd the image to a USB stick. Try to boot each machine from SoaS Live CD (or dd USB), and report any fails. And/or, try to boot Fedora XFCE Live CD, and test sound and video. This should identify the machines which are Linux friendly. There is also a Red Hat Hardware Compatibility List, which I previously found reliable. As mentioned previously, don't expect collaboration to work on current Fedora without expert intervention. Regards, Iain > David > > > -----Original Message----- > From: qu...@laptop.org [mailto:qu...@laptop.org] > Sent: Wednesday, 9 September 2015 11:05 a.m. > To: David Leeming > Cc: soas@lists.sugarlabs.org; sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org > Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] [SoaS] SOAS > > The same hardware requirements for the corresponding version of > Fedora, since SOAS is based on Fedora. > > SOAS itself has no hardware requirements beyond what Fedora has. > > SOAS and Sugar are hardware agnostic. > > However, some Sugar activities require a camera, some require > microphone and speaker, and most require wireless or wired networking. > > A keyboard, touchpad or mouse, and touchscreen are also useful. > > On Wed, Sep 09, 2015 at 10:50:06AM +1100, David Leeming wrote: > > Hi James, > > > > What are the hardware requirements for SOAS to work? > > > > David > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: qu...@laptop.org [mailto:qu...@laptop.org] > > Sent: Wednesday, 9 September 2015 10:37 a.m. > > To: David Leeming > > Cc: soas@lists.sugarlabs.org; sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org > > Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] [SoaS] SOAS > > > > G'day David, > > > > I've no guidelines. There are some industry best practices, but they > > boil down to; > > > > - conditions of sale, e.g. the seller warrants compatibility with > > Linux, or fails to, > > > > - compatibility testing, e.g. running an uncustomised Linux such as > > Fedora, and verifying it works with enough stability, > > > > - component testing, e.g. a memory tester, > > > > - scenario testing, e.g. sleep and wake, lid close, lid open, wireless > > access, USB device access, sound playback, sound capture, video > > playback, video capture, > > > > For hardware being repurposed, it helps to know where you got it from, > > and what it has experienced. A memory test may help to find thermal > > problems, like dust in fans, or battery longevity. > > > > Otherwise, it's a never ending problem. ;-) > > > > On Wed, Sep 09, 2015 at 10:05:19AM +1100, David Leeming wrote: > > > Hi James, > > > > > > Yes that is understood. Are there any guidelines we can follow in > > > reviewing hardware for compatibility? > > > > > > David > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: qu...@laptop.org [mailto:qu...@laptop.org] > > > Sent: Wednesday, 9 September 2015 10:00 a.m. > > > To: David Leeming > > > Cc: sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org; soas@lists.sugarlabs.org > > > Subject: Re: [SoaS] [Sugar-devel] SOAS > > > > > > G'day David, > > > > > > The stability problems you describe are not SOAS or Linux, but rather > > > hardware. We find Sugar, SOAS, or Linux very stable when used on > > > known good hardware or in emulation on known good hardware. Emulation > > > won't fix your stability issues though; you have to fix the hardware. > > > Use a memory tester. > > > > > > The collaboration problems you describe are Sugar vs Fedora > > > compatibility, and as Sam says are on the list for Sugar developers to > > > fix. > > > > > > On Wed, Sep 09, 2015 at 09:47:15AM +1100, David Leeming wrote: > > > > Hi Peter, > > > > > > > > Thanks for the confirmation of that. I did notice some issues, using > > > > the default online server with two or three SOAS active, I could > > > > sometimes see one of the identities in Neighbourhood but never both or > > > > all of them. Thus, collaboration was not possible to demonstrate. > > > > > > > > However, even without collaboration the teachers in my Vanuatu workshop > > > > were keen to try for themselves. This issue we found was > > > > unpredictability. With some of the computer types we were using in the > > > > workshop it works well, but with others it might freeze after a few > > > > minutes, or not quite complete the boot sequence. We tested the 32-bit > > > > and 64-bit and several types of USB drive, reinstalled the USB drives > > > > and confirmed that there is a lot of hardware dependency. The only > > > > computer I have that it works on every time and never freezes is a > > > > small ASUS EEE PC network 6 years old. > > > > > > > > Likewise, when installing SOAS with Linux Live USB Creator it installs > > > > VirtualBox as an option, allowing one to launch SOAS from within > > > > Windows. But we found sometimes the boot sequence works fine and other > > > > times (especially when trying to demonstrate to a group) it would not > > > > start the Live boot sequence but go into Grub instead. So not very > > > > reliable way to do that either. > > > > > > > > Hope this feedback is useful, > > > > > > > > David Leeming > > > > Solomon Islands > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Peter Robinson [mailto:pbrobin...@gmail.com] > > > > Sent: Tuesday, 8 September 2015 8:04 p.m. > > > > To: David Leeming > > > > Cc: Development of live Sugar distributions; Sugar-dev Devel; Iain > > > > Brown Douglas > > > > Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] [SoaS] SOAS > > > > > > > > Hi David, > > > > > > > > Sorry, this seem to have fallen through the cracks. > > > > > > > > > Iain referred me to a Fedora community where LinuxliveUSB installer > > > > > was recommended and it works just fine. It also installs a Linux > > > > > emulator for Windows Virtualbox and I found I could run SOAS > > > > > beautifully in that way. That is very convenient for my purposes (a > > > > > quick lead in to Sugar). I also found few problems booting USB sticks > > > > > and SD cards installed using LinuxLiveUSB, on one machine it seems to > > > > > hang but others it is fine. So it seems the installer was my issue. > > > > > > > > I've never seen or heard of the above, I've also never used > > > > VirtualBox, glad it works for you. > > > > > > > > > Regarding collaboration, if we have a few PC computers on the same > > > > > WLAN running SOAS, can we expect them to see each other and > > > > > collaborate in neighbourhood view, without a server (ie. in the same > > > > > fashion as XOs on an ad-hoc network)? I seem to recall doing that > > > > > with early versions of SOAS. If not, is there a simple/light way to > > > > > enable collaboration/presence service on a local server sufficient to > > > > > allow a few local SOAS machines to collaborate?. I am familiar with > > > > > XS developments (up to 0.7) but in the schools in Vanuatu we'll be > > > > > using gateway servers we have developed ourselves based on Debian > > > > > (Jessie 8). > > > > > > > > I believe there's an issue with recent versions on collaboration, I > > > > don't remember the exact issues, maybe one of the sugar devs can > > > > answer the reasons and when it's expected it can be fixed. > > > > > > > > Peter > > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > > > > > David Leeming > > > > > Solomon Islands > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: sugar-devel-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org > > > > > [mailto:sugar-devel-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org] On Behalf Of Peter > > > > > Robinson > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, 22 July 2015 10:58 a.m. > > > > > To: Development of live Sugar distributions > > > > > Cc: Sugar-dev Devel; Iain Brown Douglas > > > > > Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] [SoaS] SOAS > > > > > > > > > > Hi David, > > > > > > > > > > I'm the SoaS maintainer. > > > > > > > > > >> I want to demonstrate SOAS to teachers in Vanuatu. I would like to > > > > >> be more useful, but actually don't have the luxury of time to > > > > >> research these arcane technical issues in which I am not an expert. > > > > >> I just want to know, is there a version of SOAS that is properly > > > > >> tested and known to work? I have used SOAS many times before (years > > > > >> ago) without any problems. Which version is stable and will boot > > > > >> without errors and not hang on use? > > > > > > > > > > The lastest stable version is available here: > > > > > https://spins.fedoraproject.org/en/soas/ > > > > > > > > > >> Could be hardware? I will try with another flashdrive. Is 2GB of > > > > >> persistent storage too little/too much? > > > > > > > > > > 2Gb should be fine. > > > > > > > > > > Ask here on the SoaS list if you've got any other queries or issues. > > > > > > > > > > Peter > > > > > > > > > >> David Leeming > > > > >> Solomon Islands > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > > > >> From: sugar-devel-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org > > > > >> [mailto:sugar-devel-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org] On Behalf Of Iain > > > > >> Brown Douglas > > > > >> Sent: Tuesday, 21 July 2015 7:52 p.m. > > > > >> To: David Leeming > > > > >> Cc: 'Sugar-dev Devel' > > > > >> Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] SOAS > > > > >> > > > > >> Hi David, > > > > >> > > > > >> From what you say, you already did a search for your error message. > > > > >> > > > > >> Does this Fedora forum answer cover your issue? > > > > >> http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=301945 > > > > >> > > > > >> I have been working with the script livecd-iso-to-disk and it works > > > > >> fine. > > > > >> > > > > >> I am working on SoaS Loader, here is a link to the work in progress. > > > > >> > > > > >> http://soas-loader.readthedocs.org/ > > > > >> > > > > >> Good luck, and thanks for putting time in trying to demonstrate SoaS > > > > >> :) > > > > >> > > > > >> Iain > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> On Tue, 2015-07-21 at 10:51 +1100, David Leeming wrote: > > > > >>> Hello, > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> I have familiarity with Sugar since working with OLPC from 2008, > > > > >>> but I > > > > >>> haven’t been active in these communities for some time. I’m just > > > > >>> refreshing myself on current status of Sugar with a view to > > > > >>> introducing teachers to it in a forthcoming workshop in Vanuatu. > > > > >>> We’ll > > > > >>> be using tablets as well as PCs so I have familiarised myself with > > > > >>> Sugarizer. I then intended to introduce the wider world of Sugar > > > > >>> conveniently with SOAS. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> So I have downloaded both the 32-bit and 64-bit iso files and > > > > >>> verified > > > > >>> their hashes. I also download the latest version of USB Live > > > > >>> Installer. I formatted a fairly new 16GB USB with FAT32 and > > > > >>> installed > > > > >>> SOAS on it leaving 2000Mb of persistent memory. The USB stick is a > > > > >>> “SanDisk Cruzer Facet 16GB”. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Immediately I run into problems. When booting (on a fairly recent > > > > >>> Toshiba i7 laptop) it stops with “vesamenu.c32 not a com32r image”. > > > > >>> On > > > > >>> pressing Tab key I do not see “Live” as an option, but it does start > > > > >>> with the option linux0. Sugar boots and I can use it for a few > > > > >>> minutes, I tried Speak and Turtle Art for instance, but within a > > > > >>> short > > > > >>> time it hangs and needs a hard boot. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> I repeated the whole process with the 32-bit (verified) iso file and > > > > >>> same problem. I’ll give this problem only a few hours as that is > > > > >>> all I > > > > >>> have. But I would like to know what are the requirements for a > > > > >>> reliable repeatable experience with SOAS, as it says on the website, > > > > >>> to get Sugar into Vanuatu schools. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> David Leeming > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Solomon Islands > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > > > >>> Sugar-devel mailing list > > > > >>> sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org > > > > >>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > > >> Sugar-devel mailing list > > > > >> sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org > > > > >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > > >> SoaS mailing list > > > > >> SoaS@lists.sugarlabs.org > > > > >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/soas > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Sugar-devel mailing list > > > > > sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org > > > > > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > SoaS mailing list > > > > SoaS@lists.sugarlabs.org > > > > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/soas > > > > > > -- > > > James Cameron > > > http://quozl.linux.org.au/ > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Sugar-devel mailing list > > > sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org > > > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > > > -- > > James Cameron > > http://quozl.linux.org.au/ > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Sugar-devel mailing list > > sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org > > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > _______________________________________________ SoaS mailing list SoaS@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/soas
