On 05/06/10 07:28, B. Kip wrote: > On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 1:28 PM, Pablo Martin <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > On 28/05/10 22:16, Nathan wrote: > > Miron Cuperman wrote: > > > > > > AFAICT, this isn't really a flash in the pan thing, a miss it and > > you've messed up scenario - this is the ground work for the next > > generation of the web - pretty much an unstoppable movement. > > > > > I completely agree with this view of decentralization... there is > no way > to stop it and not so much need to go fast, although all the better if > it does :) > > kisses > > P > > I think one important point in how this evolves is data control. One > can view the movement toward openness and interoperability as > inevitable because tools that can do this will be more useful than > tools that don't. But on the other hand what are the dynamics > involved in a change toward user control of data?
the same standards and formats that work for federation and interoperability of networks on public servers can allow you to download your data into your computer directly much like you do with pop3 and email (but a lot better). in the way in and out you can de/encrypt the data. > How can you evolve toward users owning their profile when it is > currently in another's hands? Obviously if that other doesn't want to interoperate, there is only one way, crawling the data out and suicide: go somewhere else there will be plenty of places for your data to be safe (because we are all working on this aren't we). > Is the only way to achieve user control of data to create a whole > new system from scratch and jump over to it? No, you can also do it incrementaly with existing systems and just some formats to allow the users to get the data in and out of the different services. Make current services and web softwares more respectful with the user: the service MUST allow (and help) the user to encrypt, get the data out, get the data back in, leave, etc. Most services don't do this, and are thus designed to lock in the users. We can solve this situation with a bit of love. > A new network could be open and interoperable with all compatible > applications and services, but would it be able to interact with those > that asserted control over others' data or made private data public? You can always interact because we have the code, and *the code don't obey the system* ;-). Anyways, I think one thing is interoperability, and another is what you do with the data you have or who claims ownership or lock-in. A bit like gmail has control of peoples data, but I can interact with another email where I control the data. I trade off my privacy of course, unless I use an additional layer of encryption, but I can interact. > > Some people's idea of the open social network is linking together of > all the social networks out there. But how does it work if I host my > profile on my own server and encrypt all my data if I want to connect > with someone on Facebook and Facebook insists that my information is > unencrypted and public? (assuming they 'opened' to the point where I > could connect to a Facebook user from outside of Facebook.) Only the ones who want to talk have to talk, I think when your friends host their data under the eyes of mordor you can only encrypt or let go. Also, I don't think you encrypt the data in your own system, if it's your system you will just encrypt the hard drive if you care, you encrypt when you put the data "out there". > > I'm just wondering how such an ecosystem can function (seriously > wondering, not assuming it can't), and if not, what that means for the > development of an open network. I want a network where I can say > exactly by whom every item I create can be seen. If we want to have > such a network can we evolve towards it, or will it require scrapping > the currently used model and shifting over in one stroke? I don't think it requires scrapping the current model. As i see it, public data, private data, group data, can coexist in the systems we have now and you will want your information in a different ways depending on the situation... its a lot of grades between something only you can read and something totally public and your information must be able to go where you want when you want. kisses!! p.
