[Thomson] Sure the interest is the bank's profit, but
did not Douglas believe that bank profit should be
restricted to something like a fee on turnover, or
for their administration of the loan?
----------
No.
[Thomson] The interest, if there is to be interest
aside from those fees, would return to the National
Credit Authority for distribution within the
community, would it not?
----------
The credit authority is not a lending institution nor
is it a central bank. Its position is analogous to
the capital account within a coherent set of
accounts.
[Thomson] What determines the rate of interest?
----------
It is determined quite arbitrarily though they will
tell you it is supply and demand, which is why the
rates should be regulated as the rates once were
regulated for public utilities.
Keep in mind that if you prohibit loans above a
certain rate, say six percent, it does not mean that
people who once paid ten percent will now get their
loans for six percent. They simply will get no
loans. There is a real cost to loans that varies
from loan to loan.
There is a time premium that increases with the term
of the loan.
There is a risk premium that compensates for the risk
of default.
There is an element of profit to the banker.
--
--------- Original Message ---------
DATE: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 06:49:19
From: "Wallace M. Klinck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc:
>DEAR SUBSCRIBERS: Some comments are inserted. Replies are welcome.
>WALLY
>
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>
>> Not a buildup of goods--that wasn't the proposition.
>> Producers cut back on production and sell at some
>> price what has been produced.
>[WALLY: They cannot long sell below cost and remain solvent.
>Historically, outright destruction of product has been resorted to in
>times of credit contraction.]
>>
>> The debt steadily increases until the bubble bursts
>> and cancels the debt.
>[WALLY: The bubble has cyclically collapsed due to the debt increase
>which reduces liquidity, lack of confidence and or deliberate policy.
>The debtor is dispossessed and the strong crediters acquire the
>foreclosed assets. The banking institutions, having issued the
>accountancy reflection of the community's assets and claiming it as
>their own are in the ultimate favored position.]
>>
>> The Bank of Japan is contemplating purchasing and
>> writing off the inventory of "non-performing loans"
>> held by the commercial banks to reinvigorate their
>> economy.
>[WALLY: What could be a more convincing vindication of Douglas's
>position that the operation of the price-system under the orthodox
>financial debt system is increasingly non- self-liquidating? The
>Japanese had been known to have "pirated" Douglas's works during the
>1930's. They have a practical need to heed his words; if they had the
>Christian philosophical basis and "drive" for policy-making the
>implemention of Social Credit measures should come with ease. Without
>this, they merely want to "adjust" the system without fundamentally
>altering it.]
>>
>> [WALLY--more below.]
>>
>> --------- Original Message ---------
>>
>> DATE: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 23:00:15
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Cc:
>>
>> >Douglas� theorem suggests that without his proposed remedy, there would
>> >be a
>> >steady build-up of goods
>[WALLY: Not necessarily. The present system facilitates the purchase of
>goods through debt expansion--consumer debt, debt for new production and
>state debt. This allows acquistion for use but DOES NOT ADEQUATELY
>LIQUIDATE FINANCIAL COST. Indeed, one of our problems is the necessity
>to create an excess of superflous production in the form of excess,
>unneccessary or undesired capital or consumer goods to generate the
>"income" to allow the acquistion of past production. This "works" only
>so long as the debt is allowed to expand. The process is not, however,
>Social Credit, and involves the policy of centralization of power which
>is fundamentally incompatible with it.]
>of and �Price� and a corresponding displacement of
>> >labour. Since his remedy has never been applied (other than partially,
>> >and
>> >for a short while only, in one state in Canada)
>[WALLY: Social Credit has never been applied in Canada. (Very small
>"Dividends" were paid for two or three years but they originated from
>within the price-system, not from without as is required by Social
>Credit policy.) An army was recruited but the battle was never won due
>to various factors including lack of knowledge, ineffective strategy,
>political/legal/financial/media opposition, sabotage from within,
>destruction of initiative due to personality cult, fatigue, lack of zeal
>because of an inadequate vision and emergence from the Great Depression
>with a return to "prosperity" due to War spending, etc.]
>and, can anyone show me that
>> >there is an accumulation of un-purchased goods in the world? [WALLY: Go
>> >to the supermarkets--do you stand in line to find nothing remaining as
>> >happened in the old communist states? What other than potential surplus
>> >is the massive waste in armament production for war which can only be
>> >"consumed" by deliberate policy and action? Refer to my comments above
>> >about the role of debt in facilitating consumption.] Also, are there
>> >any statistics to show that the proportion of �unemployed� is any
>> >greater now
>> >than, say, the period immediately before the Industrial Revolution?
>[WALLY: Surely, the role of automation, robotization, etc. is well
>documented and the ability to produce enormously more goods and services
>with fewer and fewer workers is well known. More specifically, by way
>of example, in the United States from the eighteenth century to the end
>of the twentieth, the percentage of the work force engaged in
>agriculture for home consumption and export went from about seventy-five
>percent to less than three percent. This has not translated into a more
>leisured, civilized life because we operate on the deliberate and
>purposive Anti-Christian philosophy of "do ut des" ("this for that")--or
>the doctrine of Salvation through Works. That is, we are firmly
>compliant with the proposition (neglecting the reluctant recognition of
>minimal "charity" in the form of a few crumbs offered in extreme cases)
>that humans must work for everything they receive. Hence, the absurd
>policy of "full-employment" which we are determined to implement no
>matter how much irredeemable debt and centralized direction is required
>to make it work--even if it means periodic collapse, war, and tragic
>waste of human energy and natural resources to make it "work." Everyone
>to the treadmill! Release the latent productivity of the system and
>ensure its distribution without unrepayable debt and you would then see
>the stupendous potential for leisure--which we so perversely seem to
>regard as some social disease. During the days of Merry England I
>understand there were about one-hundred and fifty holidays per year.
>Are we really making progress?]
>> >
>> >I suppose I should also ask if there is in fact a large, and steadily
>> >increasing, value of unliquidated loans in the banking system? [WALLY:
>> >Yes, that's what makes the system "go"--and what eventually makes it
>> >collapse. For example, since 1944 consumer debt in Canada has increased
>> >from about five percent of annual income to currently over one-hundred
>> >percent. The attempt of various levels of government to deal with
>> >escalating debt by downloading it all along the way down to the private
>> >sector and the indiviual has resulted in massive insolvency and
>> >bankruptcy--corporate and personal.]
>> >
>> >Jessop.
>> >-----------------------------------------
>> >
>> >On Tuesday 24 Jun 2003 6:09 am, Ekky Irion wrote:
>> >> Douglas having discovered the covert mechanism that ..." in the context
>> >> of
>> >> the A+B theorem, which assumes that income is normally insufficient to
>> >> amortize debt, not because of interest, but because of labor
>> >> displacement".
>> >> . "The A+B theorem demonstrates that they would have it if it [money]
>> >> were
>> >> not for labor displacement. Furthermore, the theorem demonstrates that
>> >> loans cannot self-liquidate in the presence of labor displacement even
>> >> at a
>> >> zero rate of interest."
>[WALLY: To say that our economic problems stem from the banks issuing
>loans and wanting more paid back than they loan because of added
>interest is so facile for those determined upon simple answers and
>prescriptions. It is not Social Credit. The A+B Theorem deals
>comprehensively, among other considerations, with rates of flows of
>price generation, embracing ALL external payments by industry, and
>income, including ALL internal payments of industry. This involves the
>capitalizaton of industry which is directly related to the replacement
>of labor--and understanding the issues involved requires considerable
>unavoidable study which no honest person could possibly say is "easy."
>If civilization is to survive, I believe we have no alterative to make
>the required effort to comprehend things first as the they rreally are
>and, secondly, as they might more desirably be.]
____________________________________________________________
Get advanced SPAM filtering on Webmail or POP Mail ... Get Lycos Mail!
http://login.mail.lycos.com/r/referral?aid=27005
==^================================================================
This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a84IaC.bcVIgP.YXJjaGl2
Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE!
http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html
==^================================================================
