Bill. the difference , I think in our approach is: (1) I have stated that interest can only come from subsequent creations of credit (ie. bank lending). If at any time I borrowed from a bank with an attached repayment of interest and from that point on no new lending occurred there would be insufficient money to repay "someone's" debt. (2) I still adhere to my statement that money is not an asset (at least not in Social Credit) terminology. It is a "claim, a means" by which an asset or anything else may be obtained. By itself money is a nothing and I agree with Douglas that it is psychological in that it can be anything we want it to be provided it is acceptable by others, as per our definition of Money. (3) I have attached in PDF an extract from Douglas's "Monopoly of Credit" in which he clearly accepts that money is a liability not an asset. He refers to "Fixed Assets and Money Assets" in his following explanation but the use of Money Assets is a reference to the fact that these "Assets" can be converted to or are a claim on money and also included Cash at call. It is simply a recognition that "Money" is or should be a reflection of reality i.e., those things he has shown under assets. Vic
----- Original Message ----- From: "William B. Ryan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 2:51 AM Subject: RE: [SOCIAL CREDIT] to Victor > Victor, there is very little real disagreement > between us. We differ mostly in definition and > terminology. I wrote on June 20: > > -->Let's say that a loan comes due with accrued > interest not yet paid. That interest does exist in > the form of assets somewhere in the economy. Whether > you personally have the equivalent to them or not is > a separate issue. Assets are not limited to money > but in a rationally constructed system can readily be > turned into money as needed. That is the use for > financial services and the providers of financial > services deserve to be paid for their services. <-- > > You replied the next day: > > -->That's where we differ. I claim that the interest > does not exist and certainly not in the form of > assets. Assets are not only not limited to money but > money is not an asset. <-- > > It is true that assets are not limited to money but > it is not true that money is not an asset. Money is > an intangible in that it is a contract, whereas a > "thing" that is tangible is something in your > possession upon which you place a "valuation" in your > books. A contract that conveys benefits to you is an > asset, or rather, the benefit is the asset. For > example, the leasehold that you carry on your books > is an asset that permits you to occupy certain > premises for a defined period of time. The > countervailing liability is your obligation to pay > rent. You may have pre-paid rent in which case there > is only the asset that you carry in your books. > > Now we get back conceptually between steady state (or > quasi-steady state) and the real world. In steady > state everyone always has sufficient assets to > fulfill his obligations. If you are a business you > fulfill your interest obligations from your gross > profit. In other words, you share your profit with > your banker. > > The problem arises when there is long-term deviation > from steady state, such as from labor displacement. > > Entrepreneurial profit derives ultimately from sales > into final consumption. > > If your sales are falling in respect to your costs, > it becomes impossible to fulfill your obligations. > > Deviations through time between assets and > liabilities within a firm's accounts are accommodated > through the firm's capital (or equity) account which > makes everything balance internally within the > accounts of the firm. > > The false assumption of conventional theory--as > pertains to the economy as a whole--is that the > accounting costs of the firms sector that flow into > prices remain equal (or proportionate) through time > to the salaries, wages and dividends paid to > consumers. > > They do not but can become so through the > establishment of the national credit account. > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus > > > > ==^================================================================ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a84IaC.bcVIgP.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^================================================================
