i think the docs team has enough on their hand to have to moderate user comments. but as long as i can turn them off ;)
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 11:17 AM, Alan Fregtman <[email protected]>wrote: > I'd love something like PHP's comments section on every XSI Docs/SDK > page, for example scroll down here... > http://www.php.net/manual/en/features.http-auth.php > Check "User Contributed Notes" downwards. > > Whether PHP is a good language or not is another matter entirely, but > their commented docs are awesome. It helps people voice handy snippets > and tips beyond the existing docs. > > > On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 1:55 PM, Steven Caron <[email protected]> wrote: > > the embarrassing part to me is not taking advantage of the benefits of > being > > distributed on the web and the fact the search/index seems to get > screwed up > > every iteration. > > > > i would expect the docs to be updated incrementally between releases, > and a > > 'last updated date' on the bottom or top of the interface. lastly tags > that > > say 'NEW' like the mudbox docs have. > > > http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/mudbox2013/en_us/files/GUID-04BDA9DC-E908-4A05-A4D0-22C42D10ABE3.htm > > > > you have the opportunity to use the community here and the support > channels > > to understand what the customers need in the documentation. take for > example > > the ICE problems grahame and stephen participate in solving all the time. > > take those threads, see if a common pattern emerges, and add info to the > > documentation. while youre at it add the work done daily here by autodesk > > employees to the docs as examples, you can scrape stephen's support blog > for > > a dozen or so great examples. simply linking to stephen's blog isn't > enough. > > oh and allow people to connect to it with a rss reader or sign up for > > notifications so we are aware of new information being added. > > > > other than that i find softimage documentation to be pretty good both the > > SDK and User's Guide. i know i am probably alone here but i do use the > > documentation regularly and having used 3dsmax documentation in the past. > > > > s > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 4:51 AM, Matt Lowery <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> > >> Two thumbs up for this suggestion.... the documentation has become a bit > >> embarrassing to be honest. > >> > >> > >> On 18/07/2012 10:32, adrian wyer wrote: > >>> > >>> i think this underlines a much wider problem; the docs are woefully > >>> inadequate! > >>> > >>> for example; > >>> > >>> > http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2012/en_us/userguide/files > >>> /iceref_Extrude_Polygon_Island.htm > >>> > >>> i would expect, at the very LEAST, to have some of the 'inputs' to be > >>> backed > >>> up with an example image, to DEMONSTRATE what they do in context. > >>> > >>> when it comes to ICE, a great deal CAN be learned by pulling apart > other > >>> people's solutions, or just randomly plugging and trying to figure out > >>> why > >>> it's not working.... but with the more complicated concepts, such as > >>> modelling/rigging in ICE, nothing would compare to comprehensive > >>> documentation and examples... > >>> > >>> i would add my vote to spending some development money on better docs, > >>> and > >>> staged, step by step, versioned example scenes, possibly with video > >>> walkthroughs associated with them. > >>> > >>> my 2c > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: [email protected] > >>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Eric > Cosky > >>> Sent: 17 July 2012 23:57 > >>> To: [email protected] > >>> Subject: RE: ICE modeling > >>> > >>> I was referring to ICE rigging like the rabbit sample. Simple > kinematics > >>> have been functional solutions for me, but a couple of serious attempts > >>> at > >>> full character ICE rigging set up similar to the rabbit sample wound up > >>> with > >>> me going back to basic skeletons. Not for lack of trying (several days > >>> each > >>> time); the main problem for me was when something wasn't set up right > it > >>> was > >>> very difficult and time consuming to figure out what was wrong. I don't > >>> have > >>> anything specific to point at right now, just the general "wtf" that > >>> tends > >>> to happen when nodes seemingly set up correctly just don't want to work > >>> and > >>> the error messages don't really seem to help. For instance the other > day > >>> I > >>> was trying to do a simple clone mesh ICE tree and it just wouldn't > work, > >>> but > >>> rebuilding the tree from scratch - same exact tree as far as I could > tell > >>> - > >>> did. Bug perhaps? Hard to say. I've encountered (and reported) a few in > >>> the > >>> past so I don't assume anything at this point, but the errors didn't > >>> really > >>> say enough to tell. > >>> > >>> I blame my inexperience with ICE, and I am sure lots of people in this > >>> list > >>> could work through issues like mine easily. My email was really just in > >>> support of the wishing there was better error feedback for people not > yet > >>> expert with ICE but acknowledging that it's hard for it to really > >>> communicate more, but that more docs would be helpful in avoiding the > >>> errors > >>> in the first place. > >>> > >>> The rabbit scene is a good example of ICE rigging, and it seems to me > >>> that a > >>> walkthrough of building that rig - including all the support scripts - > >>> would > >>> be a solid addition to the docs/samples. A feature as significant as > ICE > >>> rigging should have more than a single page of general commentary in > the > >>> docs > >>> > >>> ( > http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2013/en_us/userguide/inde > >>> x.html?url=files/ikine_kinematics2_ICERigs.htm,topicNumber=d30e307742). > >>> It > >>> should have at least a couple of useful & practical examples explained > in > >>> depth. > >>> > >>> Just my 2 cents, no big deal to me really. My animations are super > simple > >>> compared to what most people here do with their eyes closed. > >>> > >>> -Eric Cosky > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: [email protected] > >>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Alan > >>> Fregtman > >>> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 1:57 PM > >>> To: [email protected] > >>> Subject: Re: ICE modeling > >>> > >>> Are you talking about ICE rigging as in doing a whole character with > ICE? > >>> Or > >>> just ICE kinematics? What's confusing about them in your opinion? > >>> > >>> > >>> On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 3:13 PM, Eric Cosky <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> I was trying to find a way to describe my difficulty with ICE > modeling, > >>> > >>> you pretty much summed it up. I have no problem with the math side of > >>> using > >>> ICE, but even the simplest tasks sometimes become very frustrating when > >>> something goes wrong. When nodes go red they often lack any meaningful > >>> clues > >>> about how to fix whatever is wrong. I am sure there is always a good > >>> reason > >>> for whatever fails, but it sometimes seems - and in practice actually > is > >>> - > >>> impossible to figure out what actually needs to be done to fix it. > While > >>> I > >>> have no problem attributing most of the frustration to my lack of > >>> experience > >>> with the system, I can't help but think that it should be possible to > >>> improve the error feedback. > >>>> > >>>> As a programmer I can appreciate how hard it would be to improve the > >>> > >>> situation all that much given it is essentially a visual programming > >>> environment and I suspect errors from low level systems just need to > >>> percolate up and there just isn't much to do other than drill down and > >>> figure it out.. I think perhaps the best thing we can hope for is more > >>> thorough ICE documentation, including examples of troubleshooting of > >>> common > >>> problems and debugging techniques. So much of ICE feels so barely > >>> documented > >>> that much of what I have tried to do so far has been difficult at best > >>> and > >>> borderline good luck when I do manage to figure it out. ICE rigging for > >>> instance has been a real challenge. The current docs & samples are IMHO > >>> not > >>> nearly as comprehensive as they deserve to be and I can only hope they > >>> get > >>> more attention. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: [email protected] > >>>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Andy > >>>> Nicholas > >>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 4:13 AM > >>>> To: Rob Chapman; [email protected] > >>>> Subject: Re: ICE modeling > >>>> > >>>> I find the most frustrating thing with ICE modelling is the lack of > >>> > >>> feedback when something goes wrong. For example, if I feed an array of > >>> point > >>> positions and indices to make some polygons using the Create Topo node, > >>> and > >>> something's wrong in that data, it's extraordinarily difficult to > figure > >>> out > >>> what's gone wrong as there's no feedback or error message from the ICE > >>> node. > >>>> > >>>> Proper support for 2D arrays as a basic type would also be very > useful. > >>>> Particularly when trying to retrieve array type data from arrays of > >>> > >>> locations. > >>>> > >>>> That's a really common stumbling block for doing complex effects. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On 17 July 2012 at 10:48 Rob Chapman <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Agreed, also how to 'grow' meshes from curves or animation data, on > >>>>> these newly generated meshes to then select polys by area or closest > >>>>> to a pointcloud ,merge surrounding polys to current selection, > >>>>> extrude this etc. maybe how to blend between some instances and a ICE > >>>>> modelling mesh. A controllable (by proximity, CAV map,weight,) > >>>>> localized subdivision would be great. I have no clue how to get all > >>>>> this to work in one ICE modelling tree together - have managed to > >>>>> bodge together two different examples - a repeated extrude from a > >>>>> random selection, but I cannot control the extrusion very well - but > >>>>> this is the only examples we have so far that are not crowds or > >>>>> fences > >>>>> :) > >>>>> > >>>>> https://vimeo.com/40452537 > >>>>> > >>>>> > http://xsisupport.wordpress.com/2012/05/03/ice-modeling-extruding-a-r > >>>>> a > >>>>> ndom-polygon/ > >>>>> > >>>>> Cheers > >>>>> > >>>>> Rob > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On 17 July 2012 10:21, Chris Marshall <[email protected]> > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> What I'm finding is simply that almost everything I try either > >>>>>> doesn't do what I expect or doesn't do anything at all. > >>>>>> Some fundamental basic workflow examples would be useful, just to > >>>>>> get the general logic clear. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Understanding why repeat loops don't work and how to work around > that. > >>>>>> How to get animation of particles from a point cloud to build an ice > >>> > >>> object. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I spent a day trying to get that to work with no luck. > >>>>>> I'd like to be able to control the positioning of elements by > >>>>>> translating or rotating them in local space. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Thanks > >>>>>> By lunch today would be useful!? > >>>>>> ;-) > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On 16 July 2012 18:05, Grahame Fuller <[email protected]> > >>> > >>> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> What sort of tutorials do you want to see? Creating shapes from > >>>>>>> the ground up, or something else? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> What I have found is that the topo nodes themselves are not that > >>>>>>> complicated. The hard part is the math and logic you need to > control > >>> > >>> them. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> So maybe math tutorials are needed? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> gray > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> From: [email protected] > >>>>>>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > >>>>>>> Chris Marshall > >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 09:44 AM > >>>>>>> To: [email protected] > >>>>>>> Subject: Re: ICE modeling > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Yes!! > >>>>>>> On 16 July 2012 11:50, adrian wyer > >>>>>>> <[email protected]<mailto:adrian.wyer@fluid-pictures. > >>>>>>> c > >>>>>>> om>> > >>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> +1 on the request for ICE modelling 101 > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> had a glance at the digital tutors one, but it's more about > >>>>>>> cloning than actually 'modelling' > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> this feature REALLY needs some in depth tutorials!! > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> a > >>>>>>> > >>>> > >>> ----- > >>> No virus found in this message. > >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > >>> Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5138 - Release Date: > 07/17/12 > >>> > >> > >> > > >
