2003 xsibase interview with Michael Arias https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__wp.me_powV4-2D3t4&d=DwIBaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=eU1-qdaHyCFHopdhMXDtE9Bla6VD1JbSuOHIeac8zF4&s=i--wdPCO5eJ7nJZNJh1rYmJ_hC8v91XwJ1hskz4cFTQ&e=
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