> The alternative is to configure the MTU of the core large enough to 
> accommodate the added encapsulation header.

But what if you can't do that? All it takes is one link with a small and/or
misconfigured MTU...

Fred
[email protected]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Int-area [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Xuxiaohu
> Sent: Friday, June 03, 2016 12:39 AM
> To: Joe Touch <[email protected]>; [email protected]
> Cc: Softwires WG <[email protected]>; [email protected]; [email protected]; 
> [email protected]; [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [Int-area] [nvo3] [Softwires] Is it feasible to perform 
> fragmentation on UDP encapsulated packets.
> 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Joe Touch [mailto:[email protected]]
> > Sent: Friday, June 03, 2016 12:34 PM
> > To: Xuxiaohu; [email protected]
> > Cc: Softwires WG; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected];
> > [email protected]
> > Subject: Re: [nvo3] [Softwires] Is it feasible to perform fragmentation on 
> > UDP
> > encapsulated packets.
> >
> >
> >
> > On 6/2/2016 7:53 PM, Xuxiaohu wrote:
> > >
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: Joe Touch [mailto:[email protected]]
> > >> Sent: Friday, June 03, 2016 2:08 AM
> > >> To: [email protected]; Xuxiaohu
> > >> Cc: Softwires WG; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected];
> > >> [email protected]
> > >> Subject: Re: [nvo3] [Softwires] Is it feasible to perform
> > >> fragmentation on UDP encapsulated packets.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On 5/27/2016 3:50 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> > >>> It is not possible to implement reassembly complying with IETF RFCs.
> > >> a) ATM does this at ridiculously high fragment rates. Granted IP
> > >> frags can come out of order, but the fragments are generally much larger.
> > > As pointed in RFC4459,
> > >
> > >      "At the time of reassembly, all the information (i.e., all the
> > >       fragments) is normally not available; when the first fragment
> > >       arrives to be reassembled, a buffer of the maximum possible size
> > >       may have to be allocated because the total length of the
> > >       reassembled datagram is not known at that time. Furthermore, as
> > >       fragments might get lost, or be reordered or delayed, the
> > >       reassembly engine has to wait with the partial packet for some
> > >       time (e.g., 60 seconds [9]).  When this would have to be done at
> > >       the line rate, with, for example 10 Gbit/s speed, the length of
> > >       the buffers that reassembly might require would be prohibitive. "
> >
> > Yes, but the alternative of declaring that you don't reassemble has a cost 
> > in
> > terms of dropped segments too.
> 
> The alternative is to configure the MTU of the core large enough to 
> accommodate the added encapsulation header. This is a feasible
> and proven approach in well-managed SP networks. No packet loss and no 
> forwarding performance degradation.
> 
> > Taking that drop into account, buffering for a smaller amount of potential
> > reordering and accounting for reasonable reassembly sizes (for IPv6, the
> > smallest "max" that's required is 1500) need not be prohibitive.
> 
> In the IPv6-in-IPv4 Software network case, assume the MTU of the core is not 
> large enough than 1280+20, all the IPv6 traffic across
> the tunnels would have to be fragmented and then reassembled. Not a small 
> amount.
> 
> > > Have you heard the wide adoption of 622M (STM-1) beyond ATM interfaces
> > between ATM switches in the previous ATM networks? If not, the highest
> > non-ATM interface in the past ATM networks was the FE interface which is 
> > 100M
> > bps (around the year of 2000), If I remembered it correctly.
> >
> > OC12 ATM NICs were commonly available in 1998. That was back when
> 
> Sorry, there was a spelling mistake ( s/STM-1/STM-4).
> 
> OC12/STM-4=622M. My question is have you heard the wide adoption of 622M 
> (STM-4) BEYOND ATM interfaces (e.g., STM-16/OC48)
> at that time?
> 
> > ethernet was pushing 100M and the only other near-gigabit tech was Myricom
> > (a spin-off of USC/ISI and Caltech). I.e., with the tech available at that 
> > time,
> > 600Mbps SAR was possible.
> 
> Was that 600Mbps SAR capability proved in real networks? And for what service?
> 
> > > Furthermore, have you heard the reordering issue with ATM cells? If no, 
> > > that
> > means once an ATM cell of a given ALL PDU gets lost, all the received ATM 
> > cells
> > of that AAL PDU would be dropped and therefore the reassembly buffer for 
> > that
> > AAL datagram would be released. In other words, there is no need to wait for
> > the lost or reordered fragment for a certain period of time before 
> > releasing the
> > reassembly buffer.
> > Reordered no, but just because they arrive in order does not mean they are
> > required to arrive *adjacent*. The same requirement applies in terms of
> > needing reassembly buffers for a number of interleaved segments.
> 
> However, the reassembly buffer requirement is limited due to the fact that 
> only one buffer is needed per VC and the total number of
> VCs is not large on the edge of ATM networks. In contrast, the number of IP 
> flows is uncontrollable.
> 
> > >  Such behavior is not possible for IP fragmentation and reassembly. Last 
> > > but
> > not least, there is no need to assign a reassembly buffer per AAL PDU (as
> > opposed to per IP datagram in the IP fragmentation and reassembly case),
> > instead, only one reassembly buffer per VC since all cells within a given 
> > VC would
> > be received in order. Since the SAR is only needed on the edge of the ATM
> > networks, the number of VCs is very limited.
> > You could easily decide to allocate a fixed number of reassembly buffers 
> > per IP
> > flow to conserve resources too. The amount of reordering, together with the
> 
> What about in the DDoS attack case? Do you believe that SPs would allow the 
> existence of that obvious DDoS attack risk in their
> networks and afford the significant forwarding performance degradation? 
> especially when there has been a feasible and proven
> solution to the MTU issue (i.e., configure the MTU of the core large enough)?
> 
> Best regards,
> Xiaohu
> 
> > number of flows supported would determine your ability to avoid packet drops
> > -- but recall that drops at high load are not unusual for IP.
> >
> > Joe
> 
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