Hi Ruediger,

Please see inline [Bruno]

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 8:52 AM
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]; DECRAENE Bruno IMT/OLN; [email protected]; 
[email protected]
Subject: AW: AD Review of draft-ietf-spring-oam-usecase-06

Hi Alvaro,

we are fine, hope you are too - thanks for your review and comments. As we work 
with two editors, our comments are marked [ED].


[AR] Major:

[AR] M1. The Introduction says that the monitoring system described in this 
document will be simplified “by enabling MPLS topology detection based on IGP 
signaled segments as specified by [I-D.ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions], 
[I-D.ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions] and 
[I-D.ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext]… This topology awareness can be used 
for OAM purposes as described by this document.”  This sounds as if those 
extensions are critical to the monitoring system; IOW, Normative.  However, the 
extensions are not mentioned in the document anymore, so I would think that the 
concept is what is important here, right?  In lieu of making the references 
Normative, please consider simply generically referring to topology awareness 
in the Introduction (as you do elsewhere) and take the references out.

[ED] The sentence is changed to:
   As compared to pre Segment Routing  approaches, Segment Routing is expected 
to
   simplify such a monitoring system by enabling MPLS topology detection based 
on IGP signaled
   segments. The MPLS topology should be detected and correlated with the IGP 
topology, which
   is too detected by IGP signaling.

[ED] Added IGP topology, as this is important or useful at least and wasn’t 
made explicit here.

#############

M2. Section 12. (Security Considerations).  This section seems to be just a 
random collection of thoughts, and not a well thought out description of 
potential threats and possible mitigation.  Please take a look at rfc3552.  I 
have some specific comments:

609         12.  Security Considerations

611            As mentioned in the introduction, a PMS monitoring packet should
612            never leave the domain where it originated.

What is the risk?  How can it be mitigated?

612                                                                             
                   It therefore should
613            never use stale MPLS or IGP routing information.

I’m not sure if you mean that using stale information leads to leaking, or if 
not using it can prevent it.  In either case, how can the PMS (or transit LSRs) 
recognize and prevent its use?

613                                                                             
              Further, assigning
614            different label ranges for different purposes may be useful.  A 
well
615            known global service level range may be excluded for utilisation
616            within PMS measurement packets.

Now you seem to be talking about isolation of the management traffic.  Again, 
what are we avoiding here?  I note that the text only says that this “may be 
useful”, so there are probably cases where it isn’t necessary – when, why?


616                                                                             
These ideas shouldn't start a
617            discussion.  They rather should point out, that such a 
discussion is
618            required when SR based OAM mechanisms like a SR are standardised.

“shouldn’t start a discussion…[but] such a discussion is required…”   Hmmm…

“SR based OAM mechanisms like a SR” -- ??

It sounds like you’re trying to say that OAM mechanisms should consider 
something, what?  Domain boundaries? Stale information? Isolation?

I am a little confused, but this document “describes a system using MPLS data 
plane path monitoring capabilities” using SR – which I thought meant that no 
new SR based OAM mechanisms are to be standardized.  Section 10 talks about 
potential extensions that are not part of what is presented here… What did I 
miss?

620            Should the approach of a PMS connected to an SR domain by a 
tunnel be
621            picked up, some fundamental MPLS security properties need to be
622            discussed.

Picked up…??  Do you mean used, implemented, ??

What “fundamental MPLS security properties” are you referring to?  Because you 
are describing approach here, this document is the place to at least mention 
those “fundamental MPLS security properties”.

622                                      MPLS domains so far allow to separate 
the MPLS network
623            from an IP network by allowing no tunneled MPLS access to an MPLS
624            domain.

This does seem like a potential security issue.  What are the risks? How can 
they be mitigated?

[ED] You are right, the security discussion should be more precise. The text is 
hopefully better:

The PMS builds packets with intent of performing OAM tasks. It uses address 
information based on topology information, rather than a protocol.

The PMS allows to insert traffic into non-SR domains. This may be required in 
the case of an LDP domain attached to the SR domain, but it can be used to 
compromise security in the case of external  IP domains and MPLS based VPNs.

To avoid a PMS to insert traffic into an MPLS VPN domain, one or more sets of 
label ranges may be reserved for service labels within an SR domain. The PMS 
should be configured to reject usage of these service label values. In the same 
way, misuse of IP destination addresses is blocked if only IP-destination 
address values conforming to RFC 8029 are settable by the PMS.

To limit potential misuse, access to a PMS needs to be authorized and should be 
logged. OAM supported by a PMS requires skilled personal and hence only experts 
requiring PMS access should be allowed to access such a system. It is 
recommended to directly attach a PMS to an SR domain. Connecting a PMS to an SR 
domain is technically possible, but adds further security issues. A tunnel 
based access of a PMS to an SR domain is not recommended.

Traffic insertion by a PMS may be unintended, especially if the IGP or MPLS 
topology stored locally are in stale state. As soon as the PMS has an 
indication, that its IGP or MPLS topology are stale, it should stop operations 
involving network sections whose topology may not be accurate. Note however 
that it is a task of an OAM system to discover and locate network sections 
having where forwarding behavior is not matching control plane state. As soon 
as a PMS or an operator of a PMS has the impression, that the PMS topology 
information is stale, measures need to be taken to refresh the topology 
information. These measures should be part of the PMS design. Matching 
forwarding and control plane state by periodically automated execution of RFC 
8029 mechanisms may be such a feature. Whenever network maintenance tasks are 
performed by operators, the PMS topology discovery should be started 
asynchronously after network maintenance has been finished.

A PMS loosing network connectivity or crashing must remove all IGP and MPLS 
topology information prior to restarting operation.

A PMS may operate routine measurements. If these are automated, care must be 
taken to avoid unintended traffic insertion. On the other hand, large scale 
operation based on operator configuration itself is a source of unintended 
misconfigurations and should be avoided.

#########

M3. References

- RFC4379 was obsoleted by RFC8029.  Please update the references and check to 
make sure they are still valid.
- I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing should be Normative.

[ED] Done in the draft.


Minor:

P1. Consider merging the Acronyms and Terminology sections – or at least 
putting both of them after the Introduction.  I know that this would mean that 
some acronyms would have to be expanded in the Introduction.

[ED] Next draft version.

#######

P2. “BFD or LSP Ping format”…references?

[ED] Next draft version.

#######

P3. The reference to I-D.ietf-spring-sr-oam-requirement seems superfluous to me 
as there is no analysis to confirm that the requirements are met or even in 
line with the use cases presented – nor do I think there’s a need for that.

[ED] Ok, we will remove the reference.

########

P4. Terminology

P4.1. The definition of Continuity Check is copied exactly from rfc7276 – and 
there seems to be no special meaning when related to segment routing.  
Suggestion: just include a statement that the terminology in rfc7276 is used.

[ED] Bruno asked us to better distinguish between CC and CV, that’s why both 
definitions were repeated. If Bruno is ok with your proposal to just refer to 
rfc 7276, I happily will do so.

[Bruno] I’m fine with a reference to RFC 7276. Given that the terminology 
section of RFC 7276 is 10 pages long, I’d propose to also indicate the related 
section (i.e. RFC 7276 section 2.2.7)

#########

P4.2. The definition of Connectivity Verification taken from rfc7276 doesn’t 
match what that RFC says; instead, it looks like the definition included here 
is a summary/interpretation.  Suggestion: again, just reference rfc7276 as a 
whole – this will avoid definitions that don’t match.

[ED] See above. If Bruno (or others) prefer to repeat the rfc7276 text, we’ll 
do so in both cases and adapt text to the original. If readers can be expected 
to have the definitions in mind, the bare reference is fine.

[Bruno] idem.

Thanks,
--Bruno

##########

P4.3. “RFC 4379 [RFC4379] specifies a Connectivity Verification for MPLS 
domains.”

P4.3.1. RFC4379 has been obsoleted by RFC8029.

[ED] Will be solved together with your M3 in the next draft version.

#########

P4.3.2. I tried looking at those RFCs to figure out what was the purpose this 
seemingly random sentence is, knowing that the concepts from rfc7276 are the 
dominant ones, but couldn’t.  Please consider rewriting or removing.

[ED] Sentence P4.3. will be removed.

##########

P4.3.3. Related –  Section 5.1 says: “…should support RFC 4379 and its 
standardised extensions.”  RFC4379 was updated by several RFCs, but RFC8029 
isn’t.  Does that change this phrase?  Do you need to specifically point at 
which extensions are needed?

[ED] Proposed rewording:
The routers of the monitored domain should support RFC 8029 and 
[I-D.draft-ietf-mpls-spring-lsp-ping] to incorporate existing and coming 
standard MPLS trace route features.

##########

P5. In 5.3: “Such a design is not within scope of this document.”  What design? 
 I guess you mean going through the details for those cases.  If so, then we 
can get rid of this sentence.

[ED] Sentence will be removed.

###########

P6.  Section 7:

“In the above example…”  You mean the one illustrated in Figure 1, right?

[ED] Figure 1 will be referenced.

“three IP Performance Measurement Work Group (IPPM WG) standard conformant 
Measurement Agents”  Please reference the agents explicitly – no need to 
mention the WG.

[ED] RFC6808 will be referenced.

s/statistical test published by the IPPM WG[RFC6576]/statistical test in 
[RFC6576]

[ED] OK.

############

P7. Section 9 (Connectivity Verification Using PMS).  Section 3 already says 
that “This document proposes the use of SR based network monitoring as a new 
Continuity Check method.  In some special cases, it also covers some limited 
Connectivity Verification.  When applicable, this is indicated in the 
description of the use case.”  So it seems to me that this Section is not 
needed.   The text doesn’t seem to provide anything more beyond that statement.

[ED] Carlos, I think Nagendra proposed this text (but may be it was Nobo). I’ll 
check with Nagendra, I prefer removing the statement.

###########

P8.  Section 10. (Extensions of Specifications Relevant to this Use Case) also 
doesn’t seem to say much, specially because rfc4379 has already been obsoleted…

[ED] Section will be removed.

###########

Nits:

N1. “pre Segment Routing” is used in several places, seemingly interchangeably 
with “non segment routing”.  Please be consistent.  Personally, I prefer “non 
segment routing”.

[ED] Will be changed to “non”

N2. s/as specified by specified by/as specified by

[ED] Will be changed.

N3. I find that the Introduction reads in parts like a marketing brochure.  It 
would be ideal if you could reword and focus…

[ED] Some Adjectives will be removed, but we’d prefer not to rewrite it all.

N4. s/by RFC4379 (using the Downstream (Detailed) Mapping information resulting 
from a "tree trace", see [RFC4379]/by RFC4379 (using the Downstream (Detailed) 
Mapping information resulting from a "tree trace"    Don’t need the second 
reference.

[ED] 2nd ref will be removed.

N5. s/T-LDP/tLDP
The RFC Editor’s abbreviation list uses it that way.  
[https://www.rfc-editor.org/materials/abbrev.expansion.txt

[ED] Will be changed.

N6. s/Obviously/

[ED] Will be removed.


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