Sorry ... sent too soon.

What exactly do you call by "resource allocation" in WAN ?

ATM PVCs ?

If not all "reservations" are just control plane reservations and they
*only* make any sense when you do the same for entire traffic you carry.
Even worse unexpected events and vendor bugs will easily destroy your plan !

I advise a lot of caution when anyone is talking about "resource
allocation" in IP networks.

Thx,
R.

On Tue, Jul 3, 2018 at 1:02 AM, Robert Raszuk <[email protected]> wrote:

> Jeff,
>
> I am not sure if I should even get into this ... but oh well why not :)
>
> > Resource allocation could happen by either WAN controller pre-allocating
> resources
> > and then exposing them to SD-WAN controller for consumption (ala carte)
> or SD-WAN
> > controller asking for a particular set of resources (on demand) and WAN
> controller providing these.
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 3, 2018 at 12:36 AM, Jeff Tantsura <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Linda,
>>
>>
>>
>> (not speaking as rtgwg chair, where you might want to present the draft)
>>
>>
>>
>> The scenario we are talking about is really - WAN (underlay/transport)
>> controller interworking with SD-WAN (overlay) controller.
>>
>> Resource allocation could happen by either WAN controller pre-allocating
>> resources and then exposing them to SD-WAN controller for consumption (ala
>> carte) or SD-WAN controller asking for a particular set of resources (on
>> demand) and WAN controller providing these. In any case – there’s business
>> relationship between 2 or more parties, so from functionality prospective a
>> node that is transit (not service aware) should forward the traffic based
>> on the destination, while node that is service aware (BSID anchor) should
>> pop IP/UDP and lookup the BSID/steer the traffic into SR policy, using
>> SPRING lingo.
>>
>>
>>
>> SRinUDP encap provides ability to traverse non SR /3rd party networks,
>> BSID (has to be provided by WAN controller at the resource allocation time)
>> is pushed by source SD-WAN node with the FEC that is associated with the
>> particular behavior and hence doesn’t require any additional mapping, e.g
>> BSID value is the mapping (BSID lookup yields an egress adj/tunnel)
>>
>>
>>
>> Hope this makes sense to you
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *spring <[email protected]> on behalf of Linda Dunbar <
>> [email protected]>
>> *Date: *Monday, July 2, 2018 at 15:11
>> *To: *Robert Raszuk <[email protected]>
>>
>> *Cc: *SPRING WG List <[email protected]>
>> *Subject: *Re: [spring] solicit feedback on
>> draft-dunbar-sr-sdwan-over-hybrid-networks-02 proposing SD-WAN source
>> node using UDP port to indicate to SR ingress node how to map to
>> appropriate Binding SID
>>
>>
>>
>> Robert,
>>
>>
>>
>> There are many definitions for SD-WAN in the industry. I used the one
>> from ONUG, who claims that “SD-WAN” concept was created by them in 2013:
>> https://www.onug.net/software-defined-wide-area-network-sd-wan/.
>>
>>
>>
>> In terms of real time deployment, there are plenty. For example, here are
>> some public available cases & services:
>>
>> https://youtu.be/JRoTXMSxtCY;
>>
>> http://www.verizonenterprise.com/products/networking/managed
>> -network-services/managed-sdwan/
>>
>> http://www.centurylink.com/business/networking/sd-wan.html
>>
>>
>>
>> It is CPE pooling together paths from different ISPs.   The draft
>> proposes a method for Service Provider to attract flows which would
>> otherwise traverse public internet, to traverse its own domain.
>>
>>
>>
>> Linda
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Robert
>> Raszuk
>> *Sent:* Monday, July 02, 2018 4:50 PM
>> *To:* Linda Dunbar <[email protected]>
>> *Cc:* SPRING WG List <[email protected]>
>> *Subject:* Re: [spring] solicit feedback on
>> draft-dunbar-sr-sdwan-over-hybrid-networks-02 proposing SD-WAN source
>> node using UDP port to indicate to SR ingress node how to map to
>> appropriate Binding SID
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Linda,
>>
>>
>>
>> You mentioned in the document the below quote:
>>
>>
>>
>>    "SD-WAN, as described by ONUG (Open Network User Group), is about
>>
>>    pooling WAN bandwidth from n service providers to get better WAN
>>
>>    bandwidth management, visibility & control."
>>
>>
>>
>> Can you provide some real life examples listing which service providers
>> allow to be externally pooled for their available WAN bandwidth as well as
>> what interface is used to get such pooling instantiated in place ?
>>
>>
>>
>> Once we understand above next natural question would be to ask how
>> accurate is such pooling in the light of the observation that due to basic
>> characteristics of the service provider's traffic patterns available
>> bandwidth or in other words congestion usually have very transient nature ?
>>
>>
>>
>> If I were writing such document I would give up any pooling and instead
>> use one of many available techniques to measure the end to end path quality
>> when making at the ingress the decision of the preferred path to be taken.
>> That is in fact what number of SD-WANs today already do without any need
>> to  make any attempts to enforce anything at the ingress to the transit
>> journey :).
>>
>>
>>
>> Many thx,
>>
>> Robert.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 2, 2018 at 11:33 PM, Linda Dunbar <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-sr-sdwan-over-
>> hybrid-networks/ describes a method for end-to-end (E2E) SD-WAN paths
>> (most likely encrypted) to traverse specific list of network segments, some
>> of which are SR enabled and others may be IP networks that do not support
>> SR, to achieve the desired optimal E2E quality.
>> In another word, one or both SD-WAN end points are NOT directly attached
>> to SR PE nodes.
>>
>> Under many circumstances the SR's Binding SID can't be exposed to the
>> SD-WAN source node (e.g. if the SD-WAN source node belongs to a different
>> administrator than the one who manage/own the SR domain).
>>
>> The draft propose a method for SR Controller to expose a "Key" to the
>> SD-WAN source node. The SR Ingress node will map the "Key" carried by the
>> SD-WAN traffic/flows to their designated Binding SID.
>> The "Key" can be carried by GRE key field, or be encoded as UDP Source
>> Port used by SD-WAN source node to differentiate flows.
>>
>> We understand that UDP source port is usually used for Entropy purpose.
>>
>> We want to hear feedback, flaws or allergic reaction to our proposed
>> method for some deployment scenarios like:
>>   1) only one or two 3rd party hops are between SD-WAN end points and PE
>> and those hops may not even use Entropy (like LTE links); or
>>   2) Grouping Applications by UDP ports may enforce same application
>> traverse through same route, which is acceptable by many deployment
>> scenarios).
>>
>> Thank you very much.
>>
>> Linda Dunbar
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> [email protected]
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>
>
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