Richard, No problem just trying to toss our some things to consider.
Have you compared cost of adding unit heaters to the rack storage space so you could change to wet pipe system? Just a thought, because if you were able to reduce your system demand you might be able to eliminate the pump. Craig L. Prahl, CET Fire Protection Group Mechanical Department CH2MHILL Lockwood Greene 1500 International Drive PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - 864.599.8439 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.lg.com -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lindner, Richard Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 2:43 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Determining a Warehouse Commodity Classification Thank you for you reply Craig. You have definitely touched on many points that I will conveying to the owner to make this a better project in terms of fire protection (namely the separate storage issues for combustibles). I only included info regarding the storage area, but yes, the office space is also protected with heads overhead as well as in the office spaces. The project has a fire pump since the flow test we received (mid-summer test) showed us only having 59 static, 40 residual and adding in our losses for elevation as well as backflow means we are way below what we need. I only included the 20psi reading so I didn't get suggestions that my project sized too large (ie. a 750 gpm could barely be tested on this system). Our design so far was based on Class II dry pipe (0.17 @ 2600 sq ft.) per '99 fig 7-3.2.2.2.2 and then adding in a 140% adjustment to compensate for ceiling height per 7-3.2.2.2.3 for a 0.24 GPM @ 2600 sq. ft. We just want to make sure we're not missing anything else. Thank you everyone for your time and comments. I really appreciate your input! Richard Richard K. Lindner Plumbing Senior Designer Morris, Johnson & Associates, Inc. 611 Industrial Way West Eatontown, New Jersey 07724 P: 732-380-1100 ext. 4186 | F: 732-380-1111 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.morrisjohnson.com -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 9:34 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Determining a Warehouse Commodity Classification Seems some are missing that this is a repair garage, not a big box retail warehouse. But anyway Richard, I would suggest having the aerosols/flammable liquids stored in a fire rated cabinet to take them out of the rack storage equation. Sounds like the quantity is minimal so you shouldn't need a large cabinet. You can also drop a sprinkler into the cabinet for extra protection. Same with the batteries, put them in a separate room not in the racks. Then it appears that all you have left could be considered Class II as you have stated. As far as ESFR, I would say only as a last resort if you can't make it work with a control mode design strategy. I also think you need to run some preliminary calcs before calling for a fire pump on a project like this. The cost would be quite disproportional to the overall project value and is without doubt going to create some wailing and gnashing of teeth on the part of the owner and GC. You state that you've got 20 psi at 1100 gpm, what is the static pressure? You need all the numbers not just flowing psi and gpm. Make sure someone has performed a proper hydrant flow test for you and make sure it's a recent test. If you can go to a Control Mode design you could possibly make it work depending on where your system falls within the curve. It might take some massaging of pipe sizes and some extra time in selecting valves and backflows etc. with the lowest pressure drop. I don't buy into the concept of trying to see into the future use of a building and over designing a system to accommodate what MIGHT be. Who's got a crystal ball to see all the possibilities? Design it conservatively but within reason and document what the design is based on. Over design based on conjecture increases cost and trying to ram a high dollar system down the throat of an owner based on "what might be" creates a lot of $$$$$$ heartburn for owners. Those are the kind of things that shed a negative light on our industry. People don't totally appreciate or understand what we do and all they see is the cost versus return on investment ratio of zero for that sprinkler system. >From a building code standpoint, is your office area separated from the storage and shop areas by rated walls/ceilings? Is the area above the office accessible for storage? Owners love to use that space for storage of all kinds of odds and ends. If it is, then don't forget about sprinkling at the main building roof level as well as inside the office. Craig L. Prahl, CET Fire Protection Group Mechanical Department CH2MHILL Lockwood Greene 1500 International Drive PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - 864.599.8439 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.lg.com _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
