Thom,

I agree with your frustration with "consulting" engineers (as opposed to "engineer of record") that are responsible for specifying criteria for a project, and then don't know why they specified what they did, and further cannot provide adequate answers to questions such as yours.

These "specifying" engineers should not be claiming fire protection as an area of expertise.

I suggest that you offer this information to your State Engineering Board for investigation. If they are not qualified, the only way anything will ever be done about it is for someone to let the State know by filing a complaint.

Just a thought...



Jeff Hewitt, PE, SET, SFPE (Prof. Member)
Corporate Engineer
Bi-State Fire Protection Corporation
636-946-0011
636-946-5172 (FAX)

This e-mail and any attachments are CONFIDENTIAL and may be protected by one or more legal privileges. It is intended solely for the use of the addressee identified above. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, disclosure, copying or distribution of this e-mail is unauthorized. If you received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately at the above captioned address.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Thom McMahon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2007 10:28 AM
Subject: Re: Grid peaking


I've been waiting for this thread to end so I could put a last quote to it. Hopefully that is now. We were directed to use the "most recent version of NFPA 13. Yes 2007. The community center building was of type V non rated construction, with single room loading of more than 300 people. We asked the engineer the following question.

"Sheet A5.1 wall sections (1) and (5) do not show any drywall attached to the bottom cord of the TJI's, this creates a concealed combustible space above the drop ceiling. (NFPA 13, 2007 8.15.22 (Exceptions of 8.15.1.2 are not met) Is it your intention to meet one of the exceptions, or shall we provide fire sprinkler protection between the ceiling and the roof joist?

His reply:
"It is our understanding that the concealed combustible space is not accessible for storage. Therefore, it is our opinion that this area does not require sprinkling.


This is only one of the 49 questions we asked, with similar responses from the engineer (P.E.) It seems as I get older I have less tolerance for my own mistakes, and expect others to care as much as I do about what we do. If only it were so.


Thom McMahon
Firetech, Inc.
2560 Copper Ridge Dr
Steamboat Springs, CO 80488-2136
Tel: 970-879-7952
Fax: 970-879-7926
----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg McGahan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2007 8:43 AM
Subject: RE: Grid peaking


I WISH the PE's in this area understood a third of what it takes to "design"
a sprinkler system instead of producing documents that are incomplete and
laughable. And yes, it ticks us off to see an engineer get paid thousands of dollars to provide incorrect information repeatedly while we are relied upon
to correct it.

Greg McGahan

Living Water Fire Protection, LLC
1160 McKenzie Road
Cantonment, FL 32533
850-937-1850
Fax: 850-937-1852


-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Leyton
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 6:32 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Grid peaking

As they say in the old country, "Oy Vey". So we have to start calling ID's
"Fixture and Furniture Technicians"?   What about "Design/Build"
construction - will those teams not be allowed to utilize anyone but a
licensed engineer or ... what is the certification of a "Designer" again? I don't think "Plan-Layout-Build" has the same ring to it. I've been in this stupid business for 26 years and I think I know a little bit about designing
sprinkler systems.

A-holes don't have anything better to do ...

Steve Leyton
Lines and Circles Guy
Certified Sprinkie


-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 3:56 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Grid peaking




Engineers do not like Sprinkler Designers calling themselves "Designers."
In
fact, the Engineering community has actually proposed legislation which
would
restrict the usage of that word.

Sprinkler Designers have always been identified as "Designers." But, the
NFSA recently requested their members to refrain from identifying themselves
as
"Designers" and using the term "Layout Technician" in lieu of it.

Forest Wilson
Cherokee Fire Protection Co








In a message dated 2/25/2007 9:02:16 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Just out of curiosity, what is NICET's restriction on the term designer?



Craig L. Prahl, CET
Fire Protection  Group
Mechanical Department
CH2MHILL
Lockwood Greene
1500  International Drive
PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC  29304-0491
Direct  - 864.599.4102
Fax -  864.599.8439
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.lg.com


-----Original  Message-----
From:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]  On Behalf Of Roland
Huggins
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 11:25  AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Grid  peaking

you haven't heard NICET'S restriction on the term  "designer".  WE are
SUPPOSE to say layout technician -  RIIIIIGHT.  What's a cubit?

Roland

On Feb 20, 2007, at 8:05  AM, Vince Sabolik wrote:

At 10:16 AM 2/20/2007, you  wrote:
Do Draftsmen exist anymore? Or are  they


More appropriately, sprinkler  designers"?


Vince Sabolik
Christi Fire  Protection, Inc.
11351 Pearl Road
Strongsville, Ohio  44136

T 440 572-7730  F 440 572-7719  Email:
 <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 _______________________________________________
Sprinklerforum mailing  list
[email protected]
 http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum


_______________________________________________
Sprinklerforum  mailing  list
[email protected]
http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
_______________________________________________
Sprinklerforum  mailing  list
[email protected]
http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum



<BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free
email to everyone.  Find out more about what's free from AOL at
http://www.aol.com.
_______________________________________________
Sprinklerforum mailing list
[email protected]
http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
_______________________________________________
Sprinklerforum mailing list
[email protected]
http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum

_______________________________________________
Sprinklerforum mailing list
[email protected]
http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum




_______________________________________________
Sprinklerforum mailing list
[email protected]
http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum



_______________________________________________
Sprinklerforum mailing list
[email protected]
http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum

Reply via email to