I think if you had a million sq ft warehouse you'd probably have a valve pit with an FDC & it wouldn't be an issue. But a bldg with multiple lead-ins can be a problem for the FD. If it were my bldg I wouldn't want them to be scratching their heads about which FDC to use while my bldg is on fire. We normally don't ask whether they want it - we include it in our proposal.
Jim Sutherland DeMaranville Installations 1510 NW 101st Street Des Moines, IA 50325 515/225-8598 Fax: 515/225-9796 -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 10:53 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: FDC's on multiple systems But to what extent? It's not a matter of not being willing but a matter of does it make good sense? If I have a million sq. ft. warehouse with multiple risers separated by hundreds of feet, fed from a city water main, interconnecting the FDs at all the risers would be a bit extreme. This could just be another unnecessary item adding an exorbitant cost to a utility (sprinklers) that most owners don't see value in already. We would be cutting our own throats to force this. There may be times when this makes sense as in cases where risers are not accessible by fire trucks, but it should be decided on a case by case basis, not just some boilerplate mandate. Craig L. Prahl, CET Fire Protection Group Mechanical Department CH2MHILL Lockwood Greene 1500 International Drive PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - 864.599.8439 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.lg.com -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thom McMahon Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 11:25 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: FDC's on multiple systems I realize that the added expense of running hundreds of feet of additional pipe to interconnect the risers may seem exorbitant. But Stop and think a moment. Every day we run thousands of feet of pipe to ensure these properties are protected, but we're not willing to run a couple of hundred feet of additional pipe to ensure that these systems will perform, with minimal training the way they are expected to by both the owner and the FD? Maybe this needs to be submitted to 13, as Ed said, but doing what is right has never been limited by "The standard doesn't say I have to!" (I just can't get that Winnie text to sound as good as Steve L. can) Sitting down with the owner and the AHJ and reviewing the situation, and reasons to do it right, may have your owner opening his wallet, to save the AHJ from getting something he doesn't want and won't work for his FD. Thom McMahon Firetech, Inc. 2560 Copper Ridge Dr Steamboat Springs, CO 80488-2136 Tel: 970-879-7952 Fax: 970-879-7926 ----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 6:40 AM Subject: RE: FDC's on multiple systems That is why if there are multiple risers it just works out best to provide a single FDC at the backflow or at some designated point on the UG system if it's a private loop, but if the building is large enough to warrant multiple risers but is fed from a municipal system, then a common FDC or FDC tied together is not practical. Signage at risers and a good walkthrough of the facility with the local FD is about the best that can be done. Running hundreds of feet of pipe inside the building between risers to connect FDC's is just a bit over the top. Craig L. Prahl, CET Fire Protection Group Mechanical Department CH2MHILL Lockwood Greene 1500 International Drive PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - 864.599.8439 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.lg.com -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thom McMahon Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 7:12 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: FDC's on multiple systems >From an AHJ point of view more than one FDC on a Building that only >supplies a portion of that building is always a bad idea. Late at night, maybe snowing they drive up to the building, see an FDC, but the strobe or water motor above it isn't flashing or making a sound. They have the right address, even if no smoke or flame is visible, they will still hook up to it before entering the building, guessing that the strobe is broken or water motor broken. Now we've put them at risk, because they don't have time to drive all the way around the building to see if there is another strobe flashing somewhere, or another FDC. This is just a bad idea! Thom McMahon Firetech, Inc. 2560 Copper Ridge Dr Steamboat Springs, CO 80488-2136 Tel: 970-879-7952 Fax: 970-879-7926 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed Kramer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 2:27 PM Subject: FDC's on multiple systems > Run into something new that I need opinions on. > > An addition is being added to an existing building. Existing building is > fully sprinklered. The total area of the combined existing and new > structure exceeds 52,000 sf and the existing system riser is in the far > corner away from the addition. So the decision was made to bring in a new > underground supply to serve the new addition. Thus the new addition will > have its own independent system riser and fire department connection. > > Does 2002 NFPA 13 section 8.16.l2.4.3 (or any other section) require the > two FDCs (one existing, one new) be tied together? > > The commentary hints at this, but I've never thought that was the intent. > I thought the intent was that multiple systems SERVED BY THE SAME > UNDERGROUND LEAD-IN be served by the same FDC. Section 8.16.2.4.5 seams > to > support this. > > Opinions? > > Ed Kramer > Littleton, CO > _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
