Aren't FDC's required to be within 150' of a hydrant? In the city? I thought so or lanes need to be widened or an auxiliary hydrant provided on the building (sized for what flow?). I know when I submit shop drawings, I have to state the distance in each direction to hydrants on the site plan. Maybe that's just me. We've added a 3rd line through a lower FDV when we can't get the volume or used a wye on the FDC. Outside hose losses can be substantial, I gauge the suction hydrant and the FDC usually. I attribute some to excess hose looped around and around.
Tom GRS If they pump them at all. I still run across protected properties where the fire department fails to stretch hoselines to, no less pump the FDC. The goal is to supply the correct operating pressure to the nozzle. To do that one needs to consider a number of factors; friction losses from the Pumper outlet to the FDC, Standpipe and the Attack hoselines, Elevation losses and the required Nozzle Pressure. Many departments use automatic nozzles, some smooth bore, some combination breakways. The Nozzle pressure of these appliances vary. In the end its "failure to plan is a plan to fail". Meridian Plaza showed us what can and will go wrong. Fire Departments and Fire Officials need to get out to each property and FLOW standpipes at a minimum of the highest and or furthest outlet and then WRITE the information gained into their PREPLANS. Preplanning is the solution, the building code and NFPA-14 have given us the tools. Before we start talking about advanced hydraulics, and Rich we better stick with volume for now, we need to educate the fire department as to proper standpipe operations. A single 2-1/2 hoseline to an FDC may not be enough, the FDC has two 2-1/2 inlets for a reason. 150 psi at the pumper outlet may not be enough. Typical automatic and some breakaway 1-3/4 nozzles can flow upwards of 200-250 GPM and many departments operate two handlines off a 10 foot pony gated wye arrangement so 500 GPM can be expected. In my jurisdiction standpipe systems are flow tested at the time of final acceptance, with and without the automatic water source and utilizing a fire department pumper. Lastly a building walkthru with the fire department is essential. And yes tankers have wheels in the east. John Drucker Fire Protection Subcode Official Red Bank, NJ I won't disagree but I did have a small caveat so as to not denigrate the folks in 482 sq. mi. areas. "But the initial setup can take some time and that's a function of how far you are from your neighboring FD's." So in your case you can do 1000 gpm and I bet you can. But your set up time to get 5-6 tankers/tenders (assuming sustained 200 gpm a piece) is 30-60 minutes from your call for the tenders which may very well be 20 minutes after the initial call for fire. Then again with a 4 mile round trip 200 gpm might stretch it a bit considering a 10 minute dump drive fill drive cycle on a 2000 gpm tank. Around here my set up time is about 5-20 minutes until I get to a sustained 1000 gpm with no more than 5 minutes from the initial call for fire. And for those that wonder about the tanker/tender east vs. west. In the west tankers have wings. In many parts of the east we'd have no clue what to call a fire fighting apparatus with wings but a UFO. Although as a FF for the DOD at West Point Military Academy for a time we called them Blackhawks and Huey's. And it's damn hard to get the water drop from a west coast tanker into the draft tank. Chris Chris: Loved your dissertation up till the end, about the tanker/tender shuttle. Our Fire District is about 482 Sq Miles, all the surrounding districts are of similar size. We have a single 2200 Gal Tender 1984, most of the other districts have the same. When our FDP finally arrives at a fire, sometimes 20 min. after the call, the haul distance for the tenders if often over 4 miles round trip, and that can very well be from a draft. Can't even keep 250 Gpm going until the second tender arrives (about 30 Min. later). I'd love to see a 1000 Gpm tender operation, but it will never happen here. On the same note we only have standpipes where there is water. Go figure? Thom McMahon _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
