LOL. Well now, you've pretty much opened up both Pandora's box and my stump speech. As controversial as they may be, a lot of what you write (all of it spot-on true) is the running basis for the argument in favor of multi-purpose systems. Talk about opening Pandora's box ...
Here in California, we have convened an Ad Hoc committee to try and write a bill that would prevent water district's from up-charging on service and capacity fees when the only trigger for a larger meter is residential fire sprinklers. This would presumably exclude so-called mega-mansions, as these need much larger services anyway. We did a 20,000+ s.f. home that had two 2" services AND a booster pump system. But our industry has GOT to take the lead at some point. What is needed is a coalition of fire officials and industry types to lobby some reason back into the application of the standard. And to try and get the water districts off this ridiculous punitive kick they're on regarding 3/4" to 1" meter upgrades. One thing you can do is to ask the fire official to look the other way regarding encroachment of the 5 GPM allowance past the meter rating for continuous flow, which will let you calc' most 16' x 16' sprinklers. Residential sprinklers are an INTERMITTENT flow, and most 3/4" meters are rated for 35 GPM and higher on an intermittent basis. At least two models now are rated for 35 GPM continuous flow as well (Hersey and Badger models; there may be others). And at least one water district I've worked with agreed to pipe 1" in the street to 3/4" meters, thus leaving us with a viable (if not our preferred) water supply. WE have to take the initiative. As for your personal initiative regarding functionality of your toilets, I can only say that 95% of the folks out there will not voluntarily do anything regarding ITM or any other task associated with their fire sprinkler system. So to keep it as connected as possible to the exercises of drinking, showering and flushing is still my preferred course of action. I'm doing well, thanks. And I'm glad to know that I can come over to your house if I need to pee. :o) Steve Leyton PROTECTION DESIGN & CONSULTING -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 2:35 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: RSV-2 Steve, True but.... 1. For the most part he backflow guys want a double check whether you use potable pipe or not and they want it after the shut-off for the entire system. 2. The water guys want to charge ever increasing stand-by fees for anything over 3/4" (the most egregious I've seen hereabouts is $14,000,00 for a 1" tap on an SFD from a particular water district if the house is inside the city limits and $21,000.00 if outside). 3. A jurisdiction that requires including fixture counts on mega square footage SFDs fearing a toilet flushing parties so that a sprinkler system requiring 38 gpm has a fixture requirement of 64 gpm added. 4. Separate taps at outrageous rates justified by not being able to turn water off for non payment and risk the liability of not having fire water (this in an unoccupiable building, no water right?, protected by a life safety only system). 5. In some places with municipal water systems tanks and pumps are more economical than water taps and they suffer from the same power outage problems. I live in the sticks and when my power goes, at least once a year, I'm without lights or water (well) for from anywheres from a few hours to ten days (worst year) and can deal with it. If my toilet quit working by itself and I had to haul water like I do know simply because someone shut down the sprinkler control valve I'd be damned sure to be breaking the fingers of he that had done it. When everything can't be as perfect as you might want a good compromise is better than nothing at all. And, how you been by the way? On 6/25/07, Steve Leyton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Sorry Ron, but the BEST way is to allow for the non-fire flow(s) and > include them in the hydraulic model and leave all this other extraneous > stuff off the system. The most failsafe solenoid is the one that's > still on the shelf at the supply house. > > The essential basis of design in 13D is a system that is nothing more > than an extension of the cold water system. No alarm is required if the > house is fitted with SD's and there's only one way to turn everything > off. Between ourselves and the AHJ community, things have strayed a > bit from the KISS principle. > > > Steve Leyton > PROTECTION DESIGN & CONSULTING > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron > Greenman > Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 1:27 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: RSV-2 > > The best way and as an added bonus you can hook up a tamper(s) on the > control > valve(s) in series so power will drop and shut off the plumbing if any > one of these devices is opened. > > > On 6/25/07, John Drucker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Pete, > > > > Solenoid normally energized, i.e. fail safe ?. > > > > Thanks > > > > John > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pete > > Schwab > > Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 2:08 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: RE: RSV-2 > > > > John > > A flow switch used to shut off a solonoid valve on the non-essential > > system is the method we use when this approach is required. > > Pete > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John > > Drucker > > Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 11:57 AM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: RSV-2 > > > > Since TYCO discontinued the RSV-2 is there any other flow diversion > > device available for larger then 1" combination mains ? > > > > John Drucker > > Fire Protection Subcode Official (AHJ) > > Red Bank, NJ > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > > to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > > > > > Wayne Automatic Fire Sprinklers, Inc. > > 2006 Inductee into "The Players Hall of Fame" > > at The Great Games of Business > > Wayne Automatic Fire Sprinklers, Inc. "Best Places to Work" > > Rated #1 in 2006 > > Large Business Category > > by Orlando Business Journal > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > > to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > > > > -- > Ron Greenman > at home.... > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > -- Ron Greenman at home.... _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
