With the up coming 2009? convention in San Diego, you may still get your
earthquake. Seems like that convention aught to have some really good
seismic classes.
Thom McMahon
Firetech, Inc.
2560 Copper Ridge Dr
Steamboat Springs, CO 80488-2136
Tel: 970-879-7952
Fax: 970-879-7926
----- Original Message -----
From: "George Church" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:07 AM
Subject: RE: Stainless Steel AG Piping
Hence the chlorinated water awaiting a SEISMIC event, rather than a fire.
I'll leave anticipated integrity to the SoCal crowd, I've been fortunate
enough to only endure 9/11, not an earthquake, with AFSA convention travel
:)
9/11 and being stuck in an elevator with half the (active) Forum :)
glc
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John
Drucker
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 9:09 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Stainless Steel AG Piping
And therein lies the problem. The AHJ's responsibility now extends to
swimming pools versus a tank dedicated to and maintained in accordance
with fire codes and standards. There are so many contingencies that its
literally impossible to assure reliability of this required secondary
water source. Lastly consider that the High Rise secondary water source
requirement derives its purpose due to concerns over seismic events.
Meaning that the secondary water source must survive a seismic event.
John Drucker
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George
Church
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 5:49 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Stainless Steel AG Piping
Isn't Bromine becoming more prevalent than chlorine in the pool
business?
How does SS stand up to the intended pool treatment if its not chlorine?
Is there a contingency plan for when the pool is emptied? I suppose it
being a secondary water source makes it less significant, but I recently
got permission to go back to city water from the last "swimming pool as
sole pump suction" job, and one of my points was that if someone drops a
tootsie roll in the pool, they'd have to empty the apt complex while the
pool was emptied and foreign object analyzed since they'd have no FP at
all (except the "Schirmer 13 system" of standpipes, smokes and
extinguishers that are apparently all the elderly need in SoCal
highrises to be completely safe from fire).
We certainly are able to use SS piping in spkr systems, and I believe
when I did a cooling tower in SS a 6" vic coupling, SS, was $120, 15 or
20 years ago, probably why we don'tuse it as a first choice except maybe
revengeful T&M. We can use 4" PVC to feed a 13R pump, I wouldn't expect
any implosion under suction SS whether its sch 10 or 40. We can run Sch
5 black steel for pump suction, and I believe the SS is much stronger
material than A795 requires.
glc
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Type 304L stainless has corrosion resistance handling finished potable
waters with a chlorine content of up to 2ppm. 316L and higher alloys
can handle water with up to 5ppm chlorine.
Craig L. Prahl, CET
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles
McKnight
Stainless steel is a good product in a lot of applications. However, in
a situation where you have chlorine in the water it may not be the best
choice.
Chlorine can attack some stainless steels and cause stress cracking.
Regards
Chuck McKnight
Battelle Energy Alliance
On 6 Oct 2007 at 16:34, Dave Phelan wrote:
Greetings again all,
I am in the process of reviewing plans for the secondary water source to
a high-rise residential building where they are taking water from the
pool on the parking garage roof and piping to the grade level fire pump
room. All indications are that there is enough head pressure to
overcome friction and fitting loss even at the max. 1500 GPM flow to
make this a do-able solution.
They have selected to use 8" sch 10 or 40 stainless steel piping for the
approx. 215 foot distance between the pool drain and pump room, which
happens to be exposed overhead - aboveground piping through two levels
of an open parking garage. They are indicating that this is the best
material for the application since chlorinated pool water will sit in
the pipe indefinately awaiting a seismic event. Here's my dilemma(s):
a. I have no previous experience in reviewing or inspection systems
with
stainless piping. I also dont think it is listed as an approved AG
material in NFPA 13 or 24 of any edition. (99,02,07). Does anyone on
the list know of a type / brand of fire protection listed stainless
steel pipe?
b. Is this really the best material for the application? I mean
sure I hear
the word on the street is stainless is very resistant to ACQ lumber and
for boat railings .... does that also mean its right for pools supplying
sprinkler systems? I was also wondering since this is almost a near
vacuum application, versus a pressure application, would stainless be as
resilent and durable with the atmosphere pushing in on it from the
outside and large volume flows and a fire pump pulling in on it from the
inside.
c. I understand from the plumbing consultant who is working on the
plans
(YIKES!!) that Victaulic makes a grooved coupling and fittings that are
stainless ... but could not tell me if they are also listed for FP use
since I have seismic design and differential movement requirements in
the project and somewhere along that piping I will need 'flexible'
couplings.
Much appreciate the assistance once again.
Dave P.
An AHJ in New Jersey
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