Document - Document - Document -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Church Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 3:53 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Supervisory Alarm - Low Air
Maybe I'm missing something here, but for the impact to us, it's a double pole pressure switch on all dry systems, and if Sparky wants or needs to wire it up, that's a good thing but not my problem? We install low air switches on all of our dry & Preaction systems - if nothing else, if there's a false trip and freezeup damage, we've got a lawsuit. I can walk into court, point out that the low air switch was furnished and installed by us- whether or not a code requirement- and its up to others to wire it so it does something. And had they done that, then the impending false trip (cause someone threw the breaker to the compressor, or the compressor crapped out, or whatever) could have been spotted and rectified when the low air switch went off, so someone should share the cost of this flood wit my carrier since it could have been prevented, we enabled the Owner/FA guy, whatever and they didn't take advantage of it. For $50 it's a cheap insurance policy. On a related note, we've encountered some real estate management companies who keep the riser room key remote from the building. We may mention tat our insrance carrier picks up the first ten minutes of flow damage on a premature activation- if it runs 5 hours cause you gotta run across town to get the key to shut and drain, that would be your insurance carrier's problem. Haven't haad to go to court over that one, and this particular firm didn't change their SOP when we brought it up. (sigh) glc -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Cabral Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 12:54 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Supervisory Alarm - Low Air I don't have a copy of 13 with me however, 13 refers you to 72 under certain conditions. As I recall this is in the body of the standard. Mike Cabral ---- Ron Greenman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > mike, > > I don't think you'll find any 13 requirement for low air alarms except > in refrigerated spaces. General low air monitoring is in 72 just like > high air. > > On 11/5/07, Mike Brown (TECH- GVL) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > The monitoring of a high pressure is not in NFPA 13 or any other > > NFPA Pamphlet except in NFPA 72, and the NFPA 13 Committee has never > > seen fit to put it in NFPA 13. I have never met anyone that could > > tell me why it was in NFPA 72. > > Mike Brown > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron > > Greenman > > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 9:58 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: Supervisory Alarm - Low Air > > > > Of course! How foolish of me! Dave, can you send me your address. I > > lost it and I want to send your Tacoma Code Book. > > > > On 10/24/07, David de Vries <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > How would you know? Simple, Ron. You would just check the log > > > where > > the building engineer dutifully recorded the air pressure on the > > system on a weekly basis, as required by NFPA 25 where there is no > > electrical supervison, of course! > > > > > > lol > > > > > > Dave at Firetech Engineering Incorp. > > > > > > Ron Greenman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I've always considered the high air supervision more critical > > > than > > low > > > since a malfunctioning compressor that runs the air up will cause > > > a longer trip time whereas low air will just let you know that an > > > unwanted trip could happen if not attended to. Of course the > > > emphasis is put on the low air because that trip rolls fire > > > trucks, requires a technician to be summoned, disrupts the normal > > > course of a day and costs the owner money. All recordable events > > > and therefore statistically useful for proving one point or > > > another. If, on the other hand, you receive a high air you just > > > fix the problem as a piece of equipment that needs maintenance. If > > > a life or building was ever lost because of high air delaying a trip how would anyone ever know? > > > The evidence would demonstrate an overwhelmed system but although > > > it might suggest it there is nothing I can think of that would > > > definitively demonstrate it was due to a delayed trip time. If a > > > bear ....s in the woods...? > > > > > > On 10/24/07, Tim Frankenberg wrote: > > > > Dave, > > > > > > > > The requirement to monitor low and high air pressure has been in > > > > the > > code before the 1993 edition of the National Fire Alarm Code. > > > > > > > > Most of the supervisory pressure switches installed are very > > > > much > > capable of monitoring both low and high air and have been able to > > for many, many years. More times than not, the high air condition is > > not being enforced by the AHJ. > > > > > > > > Kind Regards, > > > > > > > > Tim Frankenberg, CFPS > > > > > > > > Tim Frankenberg, CFPS > > > > Fire Product Manager > > > > Potter Electric Signal Company > > > > www.pottersignal.com > > > > 800-325-3936 > > > > > > > > >>> "Dave Phelan" 10/23/2007 4:52 PM >>> > > > > Something new to me popped up today as we are now using the 2002 > > editions of > > > > 13 & 72 here. > > > > > > > > On a dry pipe sprinkler the National Fire Alarm Code - NFPA 72 > > states that > > > > the air supervisory sensor shall signal on loss of 10 PSI but > > > > also > > on 10 PSI > > > > greater than the system set pressure. Check out 5.13 for > > > > yourself > > but I'm > > > > thinking Ive never seen or tested for air greater than 10 PSI of > > > > the > > set > > > > pressure before. > > > > > > > > How is this being handled in the field during installs and > > maintenance ? > > > > Does the typical air pressure switch in the little red cover > > actually cover > > > > both loss and increase pressures? > > > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > > > Dave - a NJ AHJ > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > > > [email protected] > > > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > > to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > > > [email protected] > > > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > > to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Ron Greenman > > > at home.... > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > > > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > > to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > > > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > > to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > > > > > > > > -- > > Ron Greenman > > at home.... > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > > to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > > > > -- > Ron Greenman > at home.... > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
