Good points. I made the assumption that all the systems are properly installed but no maintenance is necessary for the spring things. Perhaps incorrect. And, my intent was not to mix fruits. And, deceptive claims should not be made for any product. And, I have a visceral reaction to these spring things too, causing some jerking of parts.
Bill Brooks William N. Brooks, P.E. Brooks Fire Protection Engineering Inc. 372 Wilett Drive Severna Park, MD 21146 410-544-3620 Phone 410-544-3032 FAX 412-400-6528 Cell -------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: Wow - Info From: "Chris Cahill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Mon, November 26, 2007 12:22 pm To: <[email protected]> "Please do not take this the wrong way, but the overall benefit of a protection strategy is not as simple as a knee jerk response" Agreed! You seem to be comparing apples to oranges though. In your question it seems you are comparing a correctly installed and maintained heat detector with a poorly maintained smoke and sprinkler. Now perhaps I'm mis-reading your question. I'd rephrase to compare an unwound-up heat detector with an 18 ft stainless steel band, a smoke alarm with no battery, or a residential sprinkler system with a closed valve. I'd say they are all about the same = nothing. If you really meant a working heat and not working others then heats are better than nothing I'd guess. Perhaps then we should throw in the family pet. I read a parakeet and cat and dogs are rather common in the last few months. Or rephrase a wind-up heat detector with an 18 ft stainless steel band, a smoke alarm with battery, or a residential sprinkler system in working order? Then ask the question about long term maintenance. On the long term maintenance I'd put wind-up heat and sprinklers together (none necessary) and battery only last. Add 120v smoke and the margin is closer. Then add performance, sprinkler first. Smokes next and heat DEAD last. Of course there could be some arguments regarding flaming fire and smoldering fire and ionization vs. photoelectric. Also here comes into play the spacing of each and where one assumes the fire starts. I'll leave others to then do a cost analysis combining the rankings over the life of a system. Assuming the only goal is life safety and depending on how close you put sprinklers and smoke in life safety performance, smokes probably come out ahead (cheapest and at least somewhat effective) with sprinklers second and heats DEAD last. This being the combined life costs and performance in saving a life. Add property protection to the mix and sprinklers should come out on top easily with smokes a long way back and heats DEAD last. Sounds like a good project for a college student and an association interested in promoting more of what their association does. Chris Cahill, P.E. Fire Protection Engineer Sentry Fire Protection, Inc. 763-658-4483 763-658-4921 fax Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mail: P.O. Box 69 Waverly, MN 55390 Location: 4439 Hwy 12 SW Waverly, MN 55390 -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 9:46 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Wow - Info Which provides more life safety protection - a wind-up heat detector with an 18 ft stainless steel band, a smoke alarm with no battery, or a residential sprinkler system with a closed valve? Please do not take this the wrong way, but the overall benefit of a protection strategy is not as simple as a knee jerk response. I am not condoning false or misleading advertising, the sale of a legitimate product at an outrageous price, or life safety benefits beyond those that can be documented by research and testing. The only claim with validity, in my opinion, could be long-term reliability based on an assumption that no equipment maintenance will be performed and all the other systems will not be operational at the time they are needed. Bill Brooks William N. Brooks, P.E. Brooks Fire Protection Engineering Inc. 372 Wilett Drive Severna Park, MD 21146 410-544-3620 Phone 410-544-3032 FAX 412-400-6528 Cell -------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: Wow - Info From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Mon, November 26, 2007 10:16 am To: <[email protected]> How does this guy spew the kind of stuff he does and still keep his FPE license? Craig L. Prahl, CET Fire Protection Group Mechanical Department CH2MHILL Lockwood Greene 1500 International Drive PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - 864.599.8439 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.lg.com -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Drucker Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 10:08 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Wow - Info I would think that the sprinkler industry would be interested in refuting the statement; http://www.fireandsolution.com/heatdetector.html "These units represent a low cost alternative to sprinklers, without the potential water damage or the need to be yearly maintained saving thousands in of yearly service cost." John Drucker Fire Protection Subcode Official New Jersey -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 9:58 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Wow - Info I saw some of these wind-up heat detectors several years ago. It was one of those deals where the vendor bought everyone dinner at Ryan's (buffet style)(it was a presentation to a group) and did the dog and pony show for home protection. They were very pricy and the whole pitch may have sounded great to someone with no technical background but he sound like a snake oil salesman selling a magic elixir. Craig L. Prahl, CET Fire Protection Group Mechanical Department CH2MHILL Lockwood Greene 1500 International Drive PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - 864.599.8439 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.lg.com -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 8:44 AM To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Wow - Info I haven't seen these in a long time. Are these the mechanical coiled jobs? "John Drucker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11/24/2007 07:24 AM Please respond to sprinklerforum To <[email protected]> cc Subject RE: Wow - Info http://www.fireandsolution.com/heatdetector.html Thermal detectors should be in every room of home including garage and attic. These units represent a low cost alternative to sprinklers, without the potential water damage or the need to be yearly maintained saving thousands in of yearly service cost. They detect heat only. The most deadly fire on the loose! A fast growing, hot fire. Allow yourself and your family time to get out of the home. "Catch it when it where it starts"! This detector has saved thousands of lives. Only sold in systems package for life safety. Contact us if you have any questions. Limited 25-year warranty. Self-contained - no wires or batteries. High sound warning levels - over 100 decibels. Multiple temperature rating: 1170 - 70 ft. space rating 1360 -50 ft. space rating 1750 -50 ft. space rating Sealed and permanently lubricated. Cannot rust or corrode. Powered by an 18-foot stainless steel band. Listed by "UL" of U.S.A., "ULC" of Canada and California State Fire Marshall Faster response than sprinklers. Over 1 million families protected. Thousands of successful activations. Sold only in the home by trained fire safety specialists. The Domain "Fireandsolutions.com" is registered thru Domains by Proxy is an Internet company owned by Go Daddy CEO Bob Parsons, that offers private domain registration to its users. Ordinarily, the domain owner's contact information is listed in the WHOIS database. Using one of their partner registrars such as Go Daddy or Wild West Domains, Domains by Proxy leaves their information instead, guaranteeing some amount of privacy to the domain owner. -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Pinigis Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 10:29 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Wow I reviewed some of his writings, and he has an obvious bias against just about everything.....except heat detectors. I wonder if he is one of those guys who sells the wind-up heat detectors? Most of his statistics appear to be unfounded, and unsubstantiated. He is also part of an organization the is out to expose the evils of the ionization smoke detector...their message is very one-sides, but not completely inaccurate. Paul J. Pinigis, P.E. Chief Life Safety Engineer -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Willis Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 9:12 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Wow http://www.expertclick.com/NewsReleaseWire/default.cfm?Action=ReleaseDet ail&ID=18844 What a way to start the day... Matthew J. Willis Living Water Fire Protection, LLC. 1160 McKenzie Rd. 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