Jim,

NFPA 409 does not require a sprinkler system (Group III Hangar) if there
is no fuel transfer, welding, torch cutting or soldering, doping, or
spray painting.  The only requirement is a portable fire extinguisher in
accordance with NFPA 10.  NFPA 101 does not require a storage building
to be sprinklered.  If the building code requires it then you have a
choice either protect it as a Group II Hangar or use the storage
criteria out of NFPA 13 (EH-1).  There should be no AHJ judgment on the
demand of the system.  Either is code compliant as long as you provide
coverage in accordance with all the Group II demands for an automatic
sprinkler system, or the storage requirement demand from NFPA 13 (EH-1).
The only judgment I would use, as an AHJ, is that the hazards listed
above are truly not present.  Usually, I ask for this in writing from
the owner of the hangar and the owner of the plane (if different), so
when a follow up inspection, on a complaint basis, is done and the
hazards exist I can issue a violation and make the sprinkler system
mandatory.

It is always better to get the sprinkler system installed up front.  It
causes the owner of the hangar less headaches in the end and more
flexibility when leasing the space.

Duane Fox, Jr.
DE State Fire Marshal's Office

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thiesse,
Jim
Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 2:05 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Protection of Group 3 Aircraft Hangars

The code plan lists this as a group 3 hangar (S-2 Occupancy), and there
will definitely be aircraft stored inside, but there's no indication
that the hangar will be used for any fuel transfer, welding, torch
cutting, torch soldering, doping or spray painting, so it appears to be
just an aircraft storage hangar.  

What your saying is that a group 3 hangar meeting this criteria should
be protected using NFPA-13 EHG1, but NFPA 409 doesn't specifically tell
you that in chapter 8.9, nor does it refer you to 13 at all, so is it
just a case by case judgment call to me made by each local AHJ?  

Thanks for the help!
Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Roland
Huggins
Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 7:57 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Protection of Group 3 Aircraft Hangars

What is being stored?  IF it isn't airplanes, why call it a hangar?

Assuming it IS a hangar (and not a building on an air field that looks  
like a duck but isn't one) and as pointed out, does not have the  
hazards identified in 409 then it is not required to be sprinklered  
per 409.  IF something else triggers the requirement for sprinklers  
THEN you go to NFPA 13 which dictates an EHG1 category.

Hopefully that extracts some of the mud from the water.

Roland

On Sep 2, 2008, at 3:21 PM, Thiesse, Jim wrote:

> I could use some help regarding NFPA 409, specifically the design
> requirements for a group 3 aircraft hangar.
>
>
>
> I found the requirements for hangar groups 1&2, but section 8.9 (FIRE
> PROTECTION FOR GROUP 3 HANGARS) says:
>
> 8.9.1*
> <javascript:parent.loadDoc('/nfpa0400-0499/0409/codes-0197222',%20'', 
> %20
> 'codes-id00040901511')>  Where hazardous operations, including fuel
> transfer, welding, torch cutting, torch soldering, doping, and spray
> painting, are performed in any Group III hangar, the Group III hangar
> shall be protected with the fire protection specified in Chapter 7
> <javascript:parent.loadDoc('/nfpa0400-0499/0409/codes-0196850', 
> %20'/',%2
> 0'codes-id00040900688')>  and also shall meet the requirements  
> specified
> in 5.4.2
> <javascript:parent.loadDoc('/nfpa0400-0499/0409/codes-0196560', 
> %20'/',%2
> 0'codes-id00040900166')> .
>
>
>
> What if it's just a storage hangar and the above listed operations are
> not expected?  Group 2 hangars require a .17/5,000 sq. ft.  Does that
> also apply to ALL group 3 hangars?
>
>
>
> In NFPA 13 under extra hazard (group 1) occupancies it lists aircraft
> hangars (except as governed by NFPA 409).  I don't see any  
> exceptions in
> NFPA 409 exempting any hangars.
>
>
>
> Any help would be appreciated.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jim Thiesse
>
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