Steve stated it great. The committee did a good job of clearing any misuse. I agree with John that we have buildings out there that are built to the wrong standard. 30 minutes and life safety goals in buildings that should of have a full system.
John Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone with Nextel Direct Connect -----Original Message----- From: "Steve Leyton" <[email protected]> Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 14:11:52 To: <[email protected]> Subject: RE: Mixed-Use Code Question I agree with you, and the TC on Residential Sprinkler Systems has adopted language for Chapter 1 of 13R that is intended to finally clarify the appropriate application of the standard. If ratified at the code hearing, the standard will be applicable buildings of residential occupancy and their accessory non-residential uses only; the only way that a single structure would have sprinkler systems designed to different standards is if it is fire-separated to the extent that the areas are considered separate buildings in accordance with the building code for that construction type. These separations may be horizontal and/or vertical. I've tried to transcribe Log #21, proposal 13R-2 below: Revise the scope of NFPA 13R to read: "1.1* Scope. This standard shall cover the design and installation of automatic sprinkler systems for protection against fire hazards in residential buildings up to and including four stories in height." Revise A.1.1 as amended by Proposal 13R-58, Proposal 13R-57, & Proposal 13R-56, to read as follows: "A.1.1 NFPA 13R is appropriate for use only in buildings that are entirely residential occupancies up to and including four stories in height. Residential occupancies are defined in this standard. The height of the building is as defined in the applicable building code. It is the intent of this standard that if NFPA 13R is appropriate for use, that it be used throughout the entire building. It is recognized that incidental and accessory areas, as defined by the applicable building code, might exist within that residential occupancy. Such incidental and accessory areas would typically be considered by the applicable building code to be part of the residential occupancy and subject to the requirements for the residential occupancy by. Where buildings are greater than four stories in height, or where buildings are of mixed use, such buildings should be protected throughout with NFPA 13. Where structures of mixed use can be totally separated so that a residential occupancy is considered a separate building under the applicable building code, NFPA 13R can be used in the building of entirely residential occupancy while NFPA 13 is used in the other building(s). (Examples of incidental and accessory occupancies found in residential occupancies can include: management offices, private parking garages/areas within a dwelling unit, community laundry rooms, clubhouses, exercise facilities, tenant storage within a dwelling unit, etc.). Note, a separated mixed use structure (separated by fire-resistance rated assemblies) is not the same as a structure with separate buildings (separated by fire walls). However, there may be applicable building code provisions that permit upper and lower portions of a structure, separated by a three hour fire rated horizontal assembly, to be considered as separate buildings for certain purposes (See 2006 NFPA 5000, Section 7.4.3.6.5 and 2006 IBC Section 509.2)." Steve Leyton Protection Design & Consulting San Diego, CA -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 12:51 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Mixed-Use Code Question Although I disagree with interpretation for horizontal fire barriers that Jamie refers to that has been typical in many jurisdictions out on the best coast. As others have mentioned typically the entire lower floor is commercial with 13/horizontal fire barrier/13R above. On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 10:27 AM, Jamie Seidl <[email protected]> wrote: > In IBC land, there is Separated and Non-separated mixed use. Non separated, > your entire building would be full 13. In separated mixed use, as long as > the ratings meet the required separations or "separate buildings" of the > code, (including horizontal) you can use 13 for the lower area and 13R for > the upper. There has been some contention on the designation of a separate > building and a horizontal fire barrier, but this configuration has met the > intent of the code in the jurisdictions I've dealt with. > Jamie Seidl > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Tom Duross > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 12:23 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Mixed-Use Code Question > > I have a question about a small project I'm bidding and how it relates to > other's building codes. > Four storey 8 unit residential building, in bid stage, just got notification > that one unit, half the ground floor, will be zoned for commercial use. > I'm at odds if this changes the building to mixed-use or not. I've asked > the gc if he's still applying as an R2 and he's not sure, architect in on > vacation (go figure). I'm leafing through our building code (ICC-03) right > now to see if this qualifies as ancillary with regards to design (13 vs. > 13R) but I just thought I'd ask the masses with a little time on their hands > how this would resolve under their current codes. Often we have similar > provisions and interpretations and I don't have the workbook, tabs or > supplement yet for ours. We're new to this edition. > > I'm able to refer to 13 for design in areas like Basements but still base > the remainder of the system under 13R requirements and our old code gave > little guidance as to percentages with regards to areas outside of the use > group. I'm wondering if, disregarding permit application for now, the > addition of one of the 8 units from residential use to commercial use (will > be a store) will effect the design. > > Tom > >_______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >_______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > -- Ron Greenman at home.... _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3935 (20090313)__________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
