I would agree, provide alternative avenues for which the client can have a better perspective on the options available.
Todd Letterman Fire Protection Engineer SET CFPS Riverside County Fire Department "Fire never sleeps" (951) 955-5273 FAX (951) 955-4886 [email protected] " Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass but learning how to dance in the rain" -----Original Message----- From: Todd Williams [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 11:19 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Car Park/Stacker.... The fact that alternatives are in use to protect certain occupancies that are not necessarily covered by NFPA 13 does have a place here. Not a long, drawn out discussion, but worth a mention. If my sprinkler contractor clients ask me about certain situations such as this, I will give them all of the information, including non-sprinkler approaches if something is not specifically covered in 13. It help them to decide if they want to go into potentially uncharted territory and accept that liability. The same could be said for people reading the forum; it could give them knowledge on whether to get involved or walk away. Valuable information, I would say. Todd Williams FPE and member of the green community At 01:39 PM 3/1/2010, you wrote: >Dear Scott: > >While encouraging "Low Ox" systems may be in the best interest of the green >communities and the FPE's on this site, I think you need to remember that >basically your speaking to a group of "FIRE SPRINKLER CONTRACTORS" I say >again "Sprinkler" contractors. If you want to help us figure out the best >way to provide "SPRINKLER" OR SPECIAL HAZARD SYSTEM PROTECTION, for these >occupancy types, I thank you. If however you wish to encourage us to support >more HVAC connected systems, then I say please try that at their forum. > >Thom McMahon, SET >Firetech, Inc. >2560 Copper Ridge Dr >P.O. Box 882136 >Steamboat Springs, CO 80488 >Tel: 970-879-7952 >Fax: 970-879-7926 > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: [email protected] >[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of å... .... >Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 11:24 AM >To: [email protected] >Subject: Car Park/Stacker.... > >I understand peoples' concerns about >having an occupied building over the >top of a car carousel/stack. I have seen business >buildings built over a gas station (perhaps >not the best design strategy). I have seen >airport radar buildings constructed over >an office (both of which were unsprinklered). >I have seen plenty of mixed use buildings, >and though it may not make sense to do >have mixed-use where the cost of land is minimal, >the fact remains, in many cities and >suburbs, urban planning and that ' green >thing ' have designers taking a second look. >It no longer is a foregone conclusion in dense >urban areas that simply >paving another parking lot or >committing a lot to a single-occupancy building >is in everyones best short, and certainly long-term >interests. > >We can design parking stacks underneath >buildings safely. The several day ordeal in >putting out a standard subterranean car park >in Paris recently highlights the need for coordinating >their design with fire departments (i.e. standpipes, >vehicle access in low ceiling spaces, etc.). > >Stacked car subterranean parking is coming >to dense urban centers. It makes efficient >use of space. And there is a great way to >protect these spaces without sprinklers. >Geir Jensen and friends engineer a low-oxygen >environment whereby the fire has a difficult >time to start down there, let alone burn. The car carousel >obviates the need for people, so long >term exposure to 15% oxygen is not a problem. >Nor is it something that a mountain man is not >already used to. Most >people can readily tolerate it for bouts of an hour >or two. > >While this low-oxygen system is >intrinsically safe... (even if power to the >filters fails, the diffusion time needed to >raise these 15% oxygen levels can be on >the order of half days and longer where >cars are remote from ambient air)... a substantial >fire barrier between subterranean car-carousel >and mixed-use occupancy above will provide >a substantial and a second intrinsically-safe fire >protection system. > >These car-carousel systems are good use of >urban space; fire protection should embrace >them. Good urban planning trumps fire protection. >Fire protection is easy enough to acquire. Urban >planning however, is much more difficult to make happen >because city hall gets bought and caught by >developers' dollars. In an effort to catalyze more >and better urban planning, (planning that >usually involves more mixed-use neighborhoods which >are a hallmark of most evolved older-and-larger cities), >fire protection need continue with its creativity and ramp >up its motivation for finding better ways to >make mixed-use happen. We should be helping >mixed-use urban planning succeed, instead of offering >prescriptive "no's" and SOP dead-ends. > >And it is not just fire protection...the EPA >needs to get on its good foot. EPA regulatory >wheels can grind slow, but it is time for them to let >go of the idea that 15% oxygen is a problem, and >instead embrace an intrinsically green solution >ready to go in the starting gates. Perhaps to help >let their fears go, a gravy-train conference in >La Paz or Frisco, CO will butter their bread. > > >scot deal >excelsior fire engineer > > > >On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 16:57, Dan Wilder <[email protected]> wrote: > > > http://www.bre.co.uk/newsdetails.jsp?id=618 > > > > http://www.bre.co.uk/page.jsp?id=2149 > > > > > > >http://www.bre.co.uk/filelibrary/pdf/rpts/BRE_Global_Client_Report_no_signat >ures.pdf > > > > These are some reports done by the boys across the pond....if it helps. > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Sprinklerforum mailing list >[email protected] >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > >For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > >To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > >_______________________________________________ >Sprinklerforum mailing list >[email protected] >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > >For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > >To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) Todd G. Williams, PE Fire Protection Design/Consulting Stonington, Connecticut 860-535-2080 www.fpdc.com _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
