I think this is exactly what I needed. As always, I can not tell you how much I appreciate this forum and the sharing of intel. Some of you guys are the bomb.
Greg McGahan Living Water Fire Protection (850) 937.1850 | Fax (850) 937.1852 | Cell (850) 554.3231 -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 12:10 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Fire Pump Transfer Switch I presume Tom's inability to look up sections is due to his not being near his books rather than because he was captured by marauding Hittites, had his eyes puts out, and then sent to the mines of Anatolia. That being said I have books and owe him a favor so here is text from 110/2005 that I believe supports the "the wires have to be there" argument and though I didn't look it up I know the separate conduits for control and feeder wires is correct also. (4) Manually operated (test) switch located in each automatic transfer switch (ATS) that simulates a loss of power and causes automatic starting and operation until this switch is reset, to cause the engine circuit to duplicate its functions in the same manner commercial power is restored after a true commercial power failure. Note the test switch is to be in the ATS while the starter controls for the generator have to be at the generator location (and this is directly stated in 110 as well as 70. Not what the electrician or the GC want to hear but you might explain it that as the pump is analogous to a heart would he want his emergency heart fixing glycerine pills in his pocket or back home in the medicine cabinet? On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 8:18 AM, Tom Duross <[email protected]> wrote: > The basic principal behind the switch is to start the genset when loss of > power is detected and then transfer. Without the start wires, it cannot > start the generator. This is a constant problem in new startups because the > designers/engineers forget this. Not uncommon for me. Also, the wires > cannot be run in the same conduit as the emergency feeders. 20 requires > independent control of the generator whether type 1 or 2 arrangement. I > can't look up the sections but they're in there. > Tom > > > I have looked in 70 and 20 and in the archives but I cannot find the > requirement (at least where I can understand it) that "control wires" are > required to run from the transfer switch to the emergency generator. > > There are not such wires on the Electrical Drawings and hence no wires were > installed and the FP is 500' from the Genset. The GC is trying to prove to > the owner why this should not be an issue for the Electrician but should > have been on the Electrical drawings since it is required by code and is > necessary for the proper transfer switch operation. > > The only thing I can find is in 20 10.8.3.6.2 and 10.8.3.13 (momentary > switch to simulate loss of power). I think maybe the wires that are not > there involve the momentary switch but I honestly do not know. > > If you can point me in the right direction it would help us help a friend > and I would really appreciate it. > > Greg McGahan > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Bates Technical College Tacoma, WA Member: SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
