Preemption is not necessarily a bad concept. As pointed out, it is done to prevent locals from burdening areas with laws from building codes, gun control, zoning, etc that are in excess of state law. Codes adopted at the state level go through a thorough review process prior to implementation. The problem is local municipalities are often governed by a council of unqualified people that run for office because the qualified individuals are too busy making a living to deal with such minor issues as neighbors arguing over fences, etc. I was at a building department in rocky river, oh when an inspector came in and boasted to the secretary he cited an elderly woman because the leaves on her lawn were not raked! That is obviously some city ordinance passed to give jobs to beauracrats at taxpayer expense. >From a public policy standpoint, I support the concept of limiting actions local authorities can take. Building codes should be adopted after a thorough review process and city councils do not have the means of conducting that process, unless of course we refer to large metropolitan areas such as NYC, etc. Forest Wilson Cherokee Fire
Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ben Young Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 3:21 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Defeat for residential sprinklers in GA Chris, I'm also not a lawyer, but absolute sovereign immunity only exists for the federal government. State sovereign immunity can be abrogated by congress for certain tortious acts of negligence. Individual officers of state government can also be sued using the stripping doctrine. And of course, municipal governments do not have sovereign immunity at all. Like I said, I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know if that is the way a legal challenge would go exactly, but there are limited avenues at the state government level, and unlimited ability to sue below the state government level. All it takes is one winning lawsuit to set the precedent, and governments will hopefully start to think twice about throwing out perfectly good life safety measures to appease homebuilders. At least I hope this is what will happen, because if the residential sprinkler requirements are going to stay in the IBC for the foreseeable future, I cannot fathom the idea that states could keep excising them. I mean, can you imagine states 100 years from now still letting this exception stand? I hope that doesn't come to pass. At a certain point, the federal government may step in as well. Airbags in cars came about way before they were required by federal law because the government decreed that they wouldn't buy any fleet vehicles without them. To this day, there is no federal open container law, but if your state doesn't have one, the government holds back part of their highway funds. Also, the gun control item was simply an example of where you can find preemptive legislation. And whoever said what happened to small federal government, well, that went out with the bathwater when Madison and the federalists took over. Benjamin Young Sprinkler Designer Rowe Sprinkler Systems, Inc. [email protected] On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 12:59 PM, Chris Cahill <[email protected]>wrote: > Not a lawyer, but who are they going to sue? The elected officials have > immunity in these matters. > > Or are you saying this will open up lawsuits to the builder who followed > the > modified version. Even then I believe builder have some coverage. > > And on the matter a builder could be sued now for building a defective > product so I don't see this changing much. > > And guns are a bad example because sprinkler are not mentioned in the > Constitution, but I hear what you are saying. > > Chris Cahill, P.E. > Fire Protection Engineer > Sentry Fire Protection, Inc. > > 763-658-4483 > 763-658-4921 fax > > Email: [email protected] > > Mail: P.O. Box 69 > Waverly, MN 55390 > > Location: 4439 Hwy 12 SW > Waverly, MN 55390 > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ben Young > Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 11:50 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Defeat for residential sprinklers in GA > > I believe its called preemption. You see it a lot in gun control > legislation, so its not uncommon in general. > > However, this is going to backfire horribly once the first fatality happens > in a jurisdiction where the law excised the sprinkler requirement from the > IBC. You're going to see a lot of lawsuits, and more amici curiae than you > can shake a stick at. > > Its a horrible thing for sure to have to wait for it to come to that, but > as > a great man once told me, NFPA codes are written in blood. > > Benjamin Young > Sprinkler Designer > Rowe Sprinkler Systems, Inc. > [email protected] > > > > On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 12:39 PM, Ron Greenman <[email protected] > >wrote: > > > Seems to mew that these types of actions can only be stalling tactics > > since I don't see how laws that disallow the ability of elected > > officials to make laws can be constitutional. Of course I'm no lawyer. > > > > On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 8:35 AM, Terri Leyton > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Legislature: Locals can't require fire sprinklers in houses By TRAVIS > > > FAIN - [email protected] ATLANTA - Legislation that firefighters > > > lobbied hard against this session won final passage Wednesday afternoon > > > at the Capitol. > > > > > > House Bill 1196 prohibits local governments, and the state, from > > > requiring fire sprinklers in new houses and duplexes. The Senate > > > approved the legislation 45-7 this afternoon, and since it had already > > > passed the House, the bill moves to Gov. Sonny Perdue for his > signature. > > > > > > > > > The building industry worked for the change, contending that it would > > > protect the home construction industry from overzealous local > regulation > > > and thus keep down costs. But firefighters worked against it, arguing > > > that sprinklers save lives and property, particularly when homes are > > > built close to each other. > > > > > > The prohibition wouldn't apply to apartment complexes or businesses, > > > just residential buildings with "no more than two dwelling units." It > > > would go into effect as soon as Perdue signs it, and it only prohibits > > > new rules. It doesn't strike down current ones. > > > > > > > > > > > > Read more: > > > > http://www.macon.com/2010/04/21/1102517/legislature-locals-cant-require. > > > html#ixzz0lqHo7wMb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terri Simmons Leyton > > > > > > PROTECTION DESIGN & CONSULTING > > > > > > 2851 Camino del Rio South, Suite 400 > > > > > > San Diego, CA 92108 > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > Ph: 858-751-2930 - ext. 101 > > > > > > Fax: 858-751-2933 > > > > > > Cell: 619-871-8450 > > > > > > Fire Sprinklers Save Lives, Property and Firefighters! > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > > > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > > > > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > > > to:[email protected]<to%3asprinklerforum-requ...@fire sprinkler.org> > <to%3asprinklerforum-requ...@fire > sprinkler.org> > > > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Ron Greenman > > Instructor > > Fire Protection Engineering > > Bates Technical College > > Tacoma, WA > > > > Member: > > SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected]<to%3asprinklerforum-requ...@fire sprinkler.org> > <to%3asprinklerforum-requ...@fire > sprinkler.org> > > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected]<to%3asprinklerforum-requ...@fire sprinkler.org> > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected]<to%3asprinklerforum-requ...@fire sprinkler.org> > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
