Top, I have to agree with you in principle. They are obviously the proper choice in some cases where you may have high value protection needs, need to carry your own water, are extremely remote or inaccessible, etc. With pumped systems I found there is even a break even point in cost with regular sprinklers in high rises at about the sixteenth floor and small decreases per floor after that so that maybe by forty you're seeing a good savings, but at a cost of later flexibility. They have a proven value on ships. And they may very well be the technology that displaces the way we currently deliver water to a fire just as the standard spray sprinkler displaced the conventional sprinkler. They may even become the residential fire protection standard of the future, but I still stand by my original statement that this test was disingenuous and misleading. I already can see the MHBA/BIA working around that 100K savings statement, "If this system that you can't use in your house yet is 100K cheaper than the current system then how much does the current system really cost? Obviously the sprinkies must be lying and these systems really are too expensive," and, "So if these things produce so much less water damage than the stuff you can currently get the sprinkler guys have been lying about massive water damage also." So now we'll have more defending to do. We (humans), like all living creatures, create some negative outcomes associated with every positive activity we pursue (look at the red tide, a colony of dinoflagellates that overbreed themselves every seven years, cause a local pollution crises that decimates their own population by 70%, and takes down large numbers of their neighbors as well), but most activities/industries (in the broader sense of the word) are immune to massive public criticism, due to the benefits provided, until they cause a massive problem (BP comes to mind). But we're kind of like the nuclear industry of the building community. Our obvious benefit, proven over and over again, is ignored by the masses and we're viewed as those guys that wreck your building with water. I once had someone tell me he'd never have sprinklers in his house because they didn't do anything except cause water damage and every year you had to move out for two weeks and pay $6000.00 for the mandatory annual test. If we need to already fight that kind of misinformation about what we're about then I for one don't need the industry itself misleading the public and providing more ammunition to the naysayers.
On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 6:41 AM, Top Myers <[email protected]> wrote: > Perhaps the real message here is that mist systems are being seriously > investigated by a number of manufacturers such as Tyco, Victaulic Viking and > others. I understand that great progress is being made in labs with droplet > size, various pressures and potential for using regular water. I personally > believe this stuff is real and could well change fire sprinkler systems as we > know them in the future. Not tomorrow but not that far down the road. There > are good reasons why so much ids being invested in these systems. > > > Top Myers > RelMark Group > 961 Pottstown Pike > Chester Springs, PA 19425 > Office 610-321-2415 Cell 610-952-0965 > [email protected] > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of tom poisal > Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2010 2:31 PM > To: [email protected]; [email protected] > Subject: Re: Mist Systems Considered Option for Inside Homes > > This mist system while it is great for spreading the word about sprinkler > systems in general, ultimately, I believe, is going to give the wrong > message. While many people have worked long hours to finally get the home > fire sprinkler inative going this is going to confuse the lot of them and > add to distrust, skeptism and plain wrong conclusions. For anyone to tout > that a N2 tank and related equip. has NO need of service, inspection for 10 > - 20 years is blatantly wrong. The meth heads are gonna love these > systems....oh yeah seems to me that just containing such an arsenal moves > the hazard level beyond the scope of an maint. free system an into a whole > different realm. > > by others > "if we all agreed we'd be communists" > > On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 12:58 PM, Mike Cabral <[email protected]> wrote: > >> I'm not sure about the gas laws but I think you would need five N2 tanks to >> move 60 gal of water at 1800 psi. 3 gpm per nozzle X 2 = 6 gpm x 10 min >> supply = 60 gal. 60 gal X 1800 psi X .009 ÷ 208 cubic ft per tank = 4.6 >> cylinders. >> Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: "Thom McMahon" <[email protected]> >> Date: Sat, 29 May 2010 09:53:51 >> To: <[email protected]> >> Subject: RE: Mist Systems Considered Option for Inside Homes >> >> Nitrogen tanks hooked up to a water storage tank is already an option in >> 13D >> (See TALCO's FFX system.) >> While I expect pressures (operating) to be higher for mist systems, I can >> see the benefit of very small high pressure tubing in some type of wire >> mold >> in an existing structure. The $100,000.00 savings is somebody blowing smoke >> up you know where, or they inhaled more than once. The largest 13D system >> we >> ever did was 44,000 SF and it was about a $50K job. So unless the average >> home is now 250,000 SF I don't see any way even at half the cost to save >> 100K. >> I love the statement 13R for single family and duplex homes in the copy of >> Gannon's study. Obviously Marriott is more in keeping with 13R, in their >> retirement and lodging settings. Personally I think there is more to be >> studied, and perhaps something that looks more like a "Vortex" system will >> come of it someday. Right now unless someone is volunteering their >> community >> to be a Guinea Pig for this mist system, I don't see its application as a >> option in 13D or R very soon. Of course you could always do it a >> "Equivalent" engineered design. >> >> Thom McMahon, SET >> Firetech, Inc. >> 2560 Copper Ridge Dr >> P.O. Box 882136 >> Steamboat Springs, CO 80488 >> Tel: 970-879-7952 >> Fax: 970-879-7926 >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of tom poisal >> Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 2:07 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: Mist Systems Considered Option for Inside Homes >> >> Oh here's the rub, the water tank is also hooked up to nitrogen tanks for >> psi, and what kind or residential mess is that gonna be! >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email >> to:[email protected]<to%[email protected]> >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email >> to:[email protected]<to%[email protected]> >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> > > > > -- > Tom Poisal, CET > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Bates Technical College Tacoma, WA Member: AFT WA 4184/AFL-CIO, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
