Craig, No argument. There's a great scene in Blood Diamond where DiCaprio asks the director of the orphanage how he can keep a positive attitude amongst all the deprivation. He responds, "My heart tells me man a good. My experience though, suggests otherwise." In that spirit I assume I'm talking to intelligent, rationale individuals at all times although my experience screams that all of us are a bundle of pre-conceived notions, prejudices, easy answers, magic and superstition. This includes all of us, myself included, to one degree or another. The sad part is that the majority seem to be mostly that way.
On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 8:43 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: > I think the fight would be even more difficult if any one point is made that > the effort is about creating jobs. Creating jobs at my expense won't sit > well with any hard working, taxpaying, citizen and especially when it's for > something that he hasn't seen a real need for. > > If that be the case, what the naysayers will play on is this, the Fire > Industry needs revenue so they are working to force you to put in a system > that per the odds will never be used but you will be required to pay to > install, maintain and have inspected for as long as you own that property. > You will have to involve local government agencies in your life on another > level and pay them and other service providers (water purveyor, fire alarm > monitoring service, system inspectors, etc.) more fees and taxes for this > system. > > Government officials when seeing a new cash cow will find more areas where > this new technology will need to be provided, maybe in all existing rental > houses since many renters are low income and tend to be more susceptible to > fire loss. Then extend that to requiring the systems to be installed before > you can sell your house. > > Sorry to play Devil's advocate here but for residential sprinklers to be > perceived by the public as a life-safety and property protective benefit, the > industry needs to be very careful of their intent and desire and how that is > portrayed. > > A while back I got a letter from the County Sherriff's office saying I needed > to pay a $45 fee for having a home alarm system. This is supposed to cover > their cost of responding to false alarms. Gee I thought that big chunk of > money they suck out of me each year would cover something like that. Point > being, there are those who will exploit the good in any issue for their for > own benefit. > > > Craig L. Prahl, CET > Fire Protection > CH2MHILL > Lockwood Greene > 1500 International Drive > Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 > Direct - 864.599.4102 > Fax - 864.599.8439 > CH2MHILL Extension 74102 > [email protected] > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman > Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2010 11:25 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: I'm speechless (Steve Dobson Article) > > Craig, > > I'm in agreement with you and the author's argument also. But you chip > away one small piece at a time. Our esteemed colleague Ed Vining > fought against a law in California requiring sprinklers retrofits in > all schools in the state. His logic was impeccable. Useful life span > of school buildings, cost of water supplies in many rural areas, > numbers of lives lost versus cost benefit, number of buildings lost > versus cost benefit. The entire idea was absurd, particularly when the > proponents pulled out the life safety card, the "Who'll think of the > children?" gambit. As far as I know the legislation passed and > California spent millions of dollars protecting it's children from a > non-event. I'm dubious about the cost of residential sprinklers if the > argument revolves around life safety. Like the author I think the > emphasis is on the wrong thing if that's our only reason. Life is > dangerous, fire is going to happen, and we've mitigated deaths per > capita from fire to a negligible statistic (of course unless it's you > or yours). Dr. Gatling invented his famous gun to save lives, but > that's a story for another time. If we mandate sprinklers to put > people to work that's a reason I can get behind. That there'll be a > reduced death rate from fire is an added benefit that makes it more > valuable legislation than something that creates the same amount of > jobs without the life saving benefit. We need to get the message > across that sprinklers increase value and societal wealth like every > other constructive endeavor. To quote, in part, Oscar Wilde, > "(We)...know the price of everything and the value of nothing." > > On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 7:52 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: >> People don't see the costs of personnel or the other components because what >> they see is the big chunk of money they give their local government every >> year in their property taxes. I've paid for it, I expect it to be provided. >> >> I don't believe his main argument is the expense, his argument is the logic >> behind the need for saving lives in one small venue when there are other >> hazards which result in far more fatalities but which are not of equal or >> greater concern by the powers that be. >> >> Craig L. Prahl, CET >> Fire Protection >> CH2MHILL >> Lockwood Greene >> 1500 International Drive >> Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 >> Direct - 864.599.4102 >> Fax - 864.599.8439 >> CH2MHILL Extension 74102 >> [email protected] >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Vince Sabolik >> Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2010 10:37 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: I'm speechless (Steve Dobson Article) >> >> Why speechless? >> >> This Dobson guy or someone like him more or less, stands between our >> industry and >> a viable residential market. His point wasn't a lie. Through his eyes >> there's the expense >> complying with a residential law that the homeowner never saw coming, >> much less got a >> chance to vote on. And then there's the attitude of just not wanting >> the government in our home, >> so to speak. >> >> Home fires aren't important to most people unless that it's happened to them. >> >> People don't understand the costs of the personnel, equipment and >> facilities, code trade-offs, additional >> hydrants, pipe sizes, and water suppies - all needed to fight the >> fires that never happened to them. >> >> I personally don't see a thriving residential market unless folks >> understand these costs vs residential sprinklers. >> >> And a law that's forced will always be resisted. >> >> Wouldn't our industry's efforts be better spent showing the public >> what a community of sprinklered homes >> would look like on a balance sheet? >> >> It's been about thirty years since residential sprinklers first start >> showing up (in California if I remember) and nothing >> we've done has developed a lasting market. Maybe it's time to think >> outside of the box. >> >> And then maybe after that, Mr Dobson will be the one that's speechless. >> >> >> >> Vince Sabolik >> Christi Fire Protection, Inc. >> 11351 Pearl Road >> Strongsville, Ohio 44136 >> >> T 440 572-7730 F 440 572-7719 Email: >> <mailto:[email protected]>[email protected] >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> > > > > -- > Ron Greenman > Instructor > Fire Protection Engineering Technology > Bates Technical College > 1101 So. Yakima Ave. > Tacoma, WA 98405 > > [email protected] > > http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ > > 253.680.7346 > 253.576.9700 (cell) > > Member: > AFSA, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, NFSA, AFAA, ASEE, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC > > They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis > Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College 1101 So. Yakima Ave. Tacoma, WA 98405 [email protected] http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ 253.680.7346 253.576.9700 (cell) Member: AFSA, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, NFSA, AFAA, ASEE, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
