While Cx is on the front page of all the cutting edge magazines, most of us know BIM is a generation away from realizing half its potential, and most of what BIM or Revit are used for, from what I've heard, is that it's a collision checker- that's it.
The vast majority of work in our industry isn't building data centers and clean rooms, its slugging out a hotel or warehouse or whatever for someone who doesn't want to pay more for his building and isn't seeking LEED points, Cx, watersaving flowswitch recyclers, etc. Otherwise, those of us using flex drops wouldn't be called early adopters, we'd all be suing them- and I still see a lot of people using 2 90's and running to the power machine, threading branchlines, etc. Basic down and dirty sprinkler work will be the mainstay for quite some time- certainly till I get a chance to break 100 on the front 9. George Church Rowe Sprinkler Systems, Inc. PO Box 407, Middleburg, PA 17842 877-324-ROWE 570-837-6335 fax [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 3:50 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: As = L x S WHEN? IF.. On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 12:35 PM, Thom <[email protected]> wrote: > Just a follow up on "AS Built" drawings, won't they become "Common" > practice as NFPA 3 Commissioning becomes more common??? > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of George > Church > Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 12:04 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: As = L x S > > Pain in ... > Similar to badge heavy in this usage. > > George Church > Rowe Sprinkler Systems, Inc. > PO Box 407, Middleburg, PA 17842 > 877-324-ROWE 570-837-6335 fax > [email protected] > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Brad > Casterline > Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 1:44 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: As = L x S > > All true George, and maybe I worry a little too much, but when Gerzayn > mentioned "Best Practice", the idea of not all heads ending up exactly > as planned occurred to me. I left out the part about calcing all > sched. 40 and figuring total pressure at all flowing outlets, not just > a few! Have you ever had to "check your back pockets", because you > still needed a little more? :) What does PIA stand for, can you say in public? > > -----Original Message----- > From: George Church [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 12:28 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: As = L x S > > In all seriousness, I find submission of AsBuilts in this industry as > the exception rather than the rule, and the likelihood of AsBuilt > Calcs even more remote, absent a contractual obligation and an > engineer either smart enough or PIA enough to followup. > > > > > Not saying they aren't a great idea for those whose systems don't > closely resemble the original layout, just saying that it isn't > exactly a mainstream issue. Absent buildings burning to the ground > and/or people dying due to improper installation, we don't need to add > the cost and if you want to see a contractor avoid something, how > about taking the chance that their calc will indicate they need to go > back into t a recently completed project and make changes! Now the > building is occupied, now the drywall ceiling is up and tested- I can > tell you the GC isn't looking to enforce since it'll cause hardship for all. > > George Church > Rowe Sprinkler Systems, Inc. > PO Box 407, Middleburg, PA 17842 > 877-324-ROWE 570-837-6335 fax > [email protected] > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Brad > Casterline > Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 9:17 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: As = L x S > > Something else you might want to keep in mind is the idea of "AS-BUILT > CALCULATIONS". Say you calc an Ord. Haz. II at 104 SF/head because the > heads are 6'-6" from one wall and 4'-0" from another. But there is a > conduit at 4'-0". The fitter knows 130 SF max for standard coverage > heads in Ord. Haz., so 5'-0" is fine. You might have a little trouble > with the as-built calcs in this case! > > ******************************************* > Good morning. > Thanks to all of you for your great answers. > I see this in my first training with AFSA in 2004 (great raining) but > once you are in the field, you have a lot of questions. > I see a lot of times some designers who use in all cases the maximum > coverage per sprinkler to do their hydraulic calculations, and when I > ask them about the "As", they tell me that us the maximum coverage > (based on the hazard classification) is a "Best Practice" because you > do not need to find what is the largest sprinkler coverage in the hole > system. With this forum, now I know I always need to use the maximum > "As" in my most hydraulic demanding area, and that value will be used for the > calcs. > Regards and thanks to all of you. > > Gerzayn Fuentes > CEPI.mx > Mexico > Tel +52 (81) 17660800 > > > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College 1101 So. Yakima Ave. Tacoma, WA 98405 [email protected] http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ 253.680.7346 253.576.9700 (cell) Member: ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
