The Class I's work by themselves.
But I do have all of this on one common riser.
If I add the most remote 1.5" hose reel at 65 psi and 50 gpm to the
sprinkler demand, I'm 12 lbs over my available.
Craig L. Prahl, CET Fire Protection CH2MHILL
Lockwood Greene
1500 International Drive
Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491
Direct - 864.599.4102
Fax - 864.599.8439
CH2MHILL Extension 74102
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Steve
Leyton
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 4:25 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Combination standpipe riser & hose flows
That sounds okay to me. If you can make the Class I's work, then the
Class II's should as well, eh?
SML
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
[email protected]
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 1:09 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Combination standpipe riser & hose flows
Not considered a high rise. Supply is automatic.
I've calc'd the standpipe alone and can make it work from the
automatic source (fire pumps from 1MM gallon on-site storage water
tank)
I can make the sprinklers by themselves work from the same source.
It's just if they are put together that it won't work. Not enough
pressure.
Craig L. Prahl, CET Fire Protection CH2MHILL
Lockwood Greene
1500 International Drive
Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491
Direct - 864.599.4102
Fax - 864.599.8439
CH2MHILL Extension 74102
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Steve
Leyton
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 4:03 PM
To: [email protected]; [email protected]
Subject: RE: Combination standpipe riser & hose flows
Is the building considered a high-rise? Is the Class I standpipe
system an automatic or manual water supply?
The collective intent of 13 and 14 is that you have to hydraulically
prove the most demanding condition(s) of the sprinkler and standpipe
systems individually, but not concurrently. So if you're
hydraulically calculating the Class I standpipe component you need to
know if you're calculating from the automatic source or the FDC
(manual system). To add Class II components, you will have to do an
automatic calculation in accordance with 14. For the sprinklers, you
would design hydraulically per 13. Contrary to popular practice,
you don't have to take an inside hose when you have a sprinkler
system, only when you have hose valves supplied by a sprinkler system
that are not considered a standpipe system.
The foregoing is my opinion only and does not necessarily represent
the opinion or intent of the NFPA 14 Technical Committee on Standpipe
and Hose Systems.
Steve Leyton
Protection Design & Consulting
San Diego, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
[email protected]
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 12:56 PM
To: [email protected]; [email protected]
Subject: Combination standpipe riser & hose flows
Admittedly I'm kind of at an impasse.
I've got a 4 level open process structure. Top level is about 85ft
above grade. Non-occupied. The structure is provided with a dry
sprinkler system and has 2.5" hose outlets at intermediate landings.
The owner has requested 1.5" hose reels at each floor for their
responders.
The area of the upper floor is only about 1400 sq. ft. Due to
obstructions and some equipment that requires impingment protection
the number of heads flowing is about 33.
The structure is fully sprinklered.
When calculating the sprinkler flow I'm trying to decipher the text in
NFPA 13 and 14 (2010) concerning how to include or not, the flow and
pressure required for the 2.5" hose connections.
If I flow 500 gpm through the top two 2.5" valves I'm good.
If I have to provide for 250 gpm in addition to the sprinkler flow I'm
good.
Where I'm in the toilet is if I have to provide that 2.5" valve at 250
gpm AND at 100 psi.
13 makes it sound like I don't have to include the hose flow if my
sprinkler flow is the higher value NFPA 13-2010 12.8.5(2) but this is
referring to wet system, no reference to dry systems.
But if that is true, and I don't have to include the extra hose flow,
do I still need to provide 100 psi at that outlet?
Am I missing something here?
Is it assumed there will be simultaneous flow of the 2.5" hose AND
sprinklers?
Craig L. Prahl, CET Fire Protection CH2MHILL
Lockwood Greene
1500 International Drive
Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491
Direct - 864.599.4102
Fax - 864.599.8439
CH2MHILL Extension 74102
[email protected]
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