So treat it conceptually as a manual wet standpipe with sprinklers on it.
George L. Church, Jr., CET Rowe Sprinkler Systems, Inc. PO Box 407, Middleburg, PA 17842 877-324-ROWE 570-837-6335 fax g...@rowesprinkler.com -----Original Message----- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of John Drucker Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 1:01 PM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: NJ windowless Basements N.J.A.C. 5:70-4.7 Joel wrote; And there is no hydraulic requirements? What Dave said below. Remember (Emphasis in CAPS).... "(h) In all buildings, any windowless basement or story located below the seventh story shall be equipped throughout with an automatic fire suppression system INSTALLED IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE NEW JERSEY UNIFORM CONSTRUCTION CODE." So you'll need to follow IBC 903, NFPA 13 and NSPC 10.5 with the exception of the automatic water supply. You'll need to make some water supply assumptions. Prudent is to determine what normal street supply would be even though damp systems don’t require an automatic water supply. From there determine the hazard and assign density, calculate coverage and pipe sizes. Remember back flow protection. In a nutshell design it as if the water supply was automatic. Hope that helps, John Drucker, CET Fire Protection Subcode Official Fire/Building/Electrical Inspector Fire Marshals Office Borough of Red Bank, NJ Not the official position of any agency, association, committee or otherwise. Obtain required applications, permits, inspections and approvals from Authority(s) Having Jurisdiction. -----Original Message----- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Fyremarshal34 Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 12:31 PM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: Re: NJ windowless Basements N.J.A.C. 5:70-4.7 It is supposed to be designed as if it had a normal water supply. The FDC being the water source if it is ever needed but the sprinklers and piping will provide proper density. That's why you need the supervised smoke detection to get an early alarm. Get the FD there and get adequate water to the system. Dave Herbert Sent from my iPhone On Sep 16, 2012, at 12:00 PM, "Joel Chaim" <activefireprotect...@gmail.com> wrote: > And there is no hydraulic requirements? > > -----Original Message----- > From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org > [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of John > Drucker > Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 11:17 PM > To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org > Subject: RE: NJ windowless Basements N.J.A.C. 5:70-4.7 > > Hi Joel, Yes it's called a "damp system", heres the code section....... > > N.J.A.C. 5:70-4.7 Fire suppression systems > > (h) In all buildings, any windowless basement or story located below > the seventh story shall be equipped throughout with an automatic fire > suppression system installed in accordance with the New Jersey Uniform > Construction Code. > > 1. Stories or basements shall not be considered windowless when there > is provided on at least one side of such story or basement fire > fighter access through openings, such as windows, doors or access > panels, that are located entirely above the adjoining grade level. > > 2. Such openings shall be at least: > > i. 32 inches by 48 inches in size, spaced not more than 100 feet apart > in each story or basement; or > > ii. 22 inches by 42 inches in size, spaced not more than 30 feet apart > in each story or basement. > > 3. All openings for fire fighter access shall conform to all the following: > > i. Openings shall be unobstructed to allow fire fighting and rescue > operations from the exterior; and > > ii. Openings in stories at or above grade shall have a sill height of > not more than 36 inches as measured from the finished floor level. > Openings in basements shall have no sill height restrictions; and > > iii. Openings shall be readily identifiable and openable from the > outside or shall be glazed with plain flat glass. > > 4. When openings in a story are provided on only one side and the > opposite wall of such story is more than 75 feet from such openings, > the story shall be considered windowless unless openings as specified > above are provided on at least two sides of the exterior walls of the story. > > 5. If any portion of a basement is located more than 75 feet from > openings as specified above, the basement shall be considered windowless. > > 6. Windowless basements not exceeding 3,000 square feet in area shall > be exempt from this automatic suppression requirement, provided a > supervised automatic fire alarm system shall be installed in > accordance with the New Jersey Uniform Construction Code. > > 7. In windowless basements greater than 3,000 square feet, but not > exceeding > 10,000 square feet in area, the required suppression system need not > be connected to a water supply other than an existing domestic supply > if the following conditions are met: > > i. The suppression system shall be provided with a fire department > connection, which shall be marked with a sign reading "Basement Area > Sprinkler Water Supply"; and > > ii. A supervised automatic fire alarm system shall be installed in > accordance with the New Jersey Uniform Construction Code. > > > There is a section about sizing fire service mains for future > expansion but that doesn’t apply to "damp systems" otherwise it would > negate the intent of that code section not requiring a fire main in the first > place. > > Hope that helps > > John Drucker, CET > Fire Protection Subcode Official > Fire/Building/Electrical Inspector > Building Department > Fire Marshals Office > Borough of Red Bank, NJ > > Not the official position of any agency, association, committee or > otherwise. Obtain required applications, permits, inspections and > approvals from Authority(s) Having Jurisdiction. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org > [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Joel > Chaim > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 10:18 PM > To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org > Subject: RE: NJ windowless Basements N.J.A.C. 5:70-4.7 > > Thanks, I read that link that Rich posted it say that a basement 3000² > to 10,000² can use the domestic water service, is there any hydraulic > design requirements for this? Which standard do I have to follow to > design this job? > > > The AHJ says that a new fire service is required and needs to be sized > to accommodate future expansion and I'm trying to get a reference of > the code from him but no luck! Does anybody know of such a requirement? > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org > [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of John > Drucker > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 10:15 PM > To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org > Subject: Re: NJ windowless Basements N.J.A.C. 5:70-4.7 > > I'm out on a fire pump test at the moment. I send you the entire take > on the matter including bulletins in the am if it can wait othewise > later tonight John Drucker - Mobile Email > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: John Drucker > To: 'sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org' > <sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org> > Sent: Wed Sep 12 22:12:28 2012 > Subject: Re: NJ windowless Basements N.J.A.C. 5:70-4.7 > > Yes. 6 story down to lowest sublevel. > John Drucker - Mobile Email > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org > <sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org> > To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org > <sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org> > Sent: Wed Sep 12 21:59:13 2012 > Subject: NJ windowless Basements N.J.A.C. 5:70-4.7 > > Anybody familiar with the NJ windowless basement code? > > What does the words below the seventh story? > > > > N.J.A.C. 5:70-4.7In all buildings, any windowless basement or story > located below > > the seventh story shall be equipped throughout with an automatic fire > > suppression system installed in accordance with the New Jersey Uniform > > Construction Code. > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was > scrubbed... > URL: > <http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/atta > chment > s/20120912/7e74ac92/attachment.html> > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > CONFIDENTIAL AND PROPRIETARY: > This email message is intended only for the use of the individual or > entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is > privileged and confidential, nor is it, unless specifically stated, > intended to be relied upon by any person or persons other than the > individual or entity named above and no warranties or representations > are made or intended to persons or entities not named above. 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