Well the 6' is broken anyway with regards to cold solder.  Test is flawed in 
that they are tested at the same elevation and they could actually be an 11" 
vertical difference.   Well, unless UL 199 has been changed recently. 

To your point I'd bet the standard preceded test.  Back in 1896 I'd bet someone 
noticed there was a too close and shortly thereafter it was in 13.  Once 
listings started the test looked to the standard for the requirement and 
designed a test to show the standard was acceptable. 

Do I know this, no.  But I do know a whole bunch of the good book is based on 
experience not testing. 

Chris Cahill, PE*
Associate Fire Protection Engineer 
Burns & McDonnell
Phone:  952.656.3652
Fax:  952.229.2923
[email protected]
www.burnsmcd.com
*Registered in: MN


Proud to be #14 on FORTUNE's 2014 List of 100 Best Companies to Work For




-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] 
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of 
rongreenman .
Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2014 2:57 PM
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: closely spaced sprinklers and draftstops at floor openings

Salvatore,

Are you sure the horse is before the cart. The spacing for heads in this 
scenario is 6 feet, and that is as close as they can be spaced per your 
reference, but is the conclusion, the one informed the other, correct?
Might be, but do you have a reference or an inference for concluding that since 
the minimum distance is six feet the rule regarding placement was driven by 
that? Perhaps not because but in spite of? That perhaps five feet was better, 
but the six foot rule got in the way. Or was six feet deemed optimum 
independently and it was coincidentally the same number as minimum allowable? 
This is to me a serious question as I spend a lot of times dealing with young 
minds befuddled by superficial observation, reasons for things long lost to 
history (I rarely use my threshold to hold back the thresh I use on my dirt 
floor to absorb the bodily waste of my farm animals), anecdote, and inductive 
logic. I'm therefore hyper-sensitive to derivations. A favorite forum one is 
that the 52K limitation is based on the maximum amount of system one would want 
to shut down at a time, or the WMG is to show the FD where the FDC is. So just 
curious if you surmised this as the cause for the six-foot spacing or if you 
have some documentation.


On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Izzo, Salvatore <[email protected]
> wrote:

> The 6'-0" o.c. dimension comes from the concept of having the 
> sprinklers spaced as closely together as possible around the opening, 
> with the minimum distance between sprinklers being 6'-0"to prevent 
> cold soldering, as stipulated by NFPA 13, as well as UL listing test 
> requirements.
>
> The 18" draftstop requirement can be found in NFPA 13-2010 8.15.4.2(b).
>
> Regards,
>
> Salvatore J. Izzo III, P.E.  SFPE
> Insurance Services Office
> Verisk Insurance Solutions – Commercial Property
> 545 Washington Blvd.
> Jersey City, NJ 07310 - 1686
> t 201.469.2486
> f 201.748.1942
> c 732.533.7927
> [email protected]
> www.verisk.com/insurance
>
> Verisk Insurance Solutions ● ISO | AIR Worldwide | Xactware
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:
> [email protected]] On Behalf Of Matt 
> Grise
> Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2014 3:10 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: closely spaced sprinklers and draftstops at floor openings
>
> I had a customer ask about where the 6'-0" spaced sprinks and 18"
> draftstops came from. Anyone know how this design came about (or where 
> I could look for info).
>
> Thanks,
>
> Matt Grisé PE*, LEED AP, NICET II
> Sales Engineer
> Alliance Fire Protection
> 130 w 9th Ave.
> North Kansas City, MO 64116
>
> *Licensed in KS & MO
>
> 913.888.0647 ph
> 913.888.0618 f
> 913.927.0222 cell
> www. AFPsprink.com
>
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--
Ron Greenman
Instructor
Fire Protection Engineering Technology
Bates Technical College
1101 So. Yakima Ave.
Tacoma, WA 98405

[email protected]

http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/

253.680.7346
253.576.9700 (cell)

Member:
ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC

They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, 
essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626)

A problem well stated is a problem half solved. -Charles F. Kettering, inventor 
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