I just returned from a month long vacation; when I was gone the city
Lawnmower cop issued a ticket for not mowing the grass in my yard.
When I returned, I met with the Lawnmower Cop and another Code cop (who
just issued a ticket to a business friend for flying a flag in front of
his convenience store without a flag permit).
The Lawnmower Cop also demanded that I remove plants that I planted
between the city sidewalk and the street; However, last year I ased if
there was a regulation against planting there and was given the green
light by his partner. Fortunately, I saved this in an email and showed
it to the lawnmower cops.
It was at that point that Lawnmower cop explained to me that "your
compost bin in the back is too much" and "we dont like your mulch" and
on and on.
He made it very clear that I could fight him on one thing but then he
would harass me non stop and never go away, all with the power of
government at his command.
So...I dropped the subject and did with the Lawnmower Cops asked of me.
The recent post about an owner taking occupancy without a COO: Most
would not do this because if they do, they are subject to arrest by
armed officers.
It is safer to just do whatever the government agent says to.
There used to be a fire inspector in the Cleveland area that insisted on
accompanying contractors on EVERY NFPA 25 inspection. The man was a
racist and I had to endure listening to his garbage (as did the owner
reps) talk about minorities while just trying to do an inspection and
move on to the next job. If either of us complained we would of just had
problems doing work in his jurisdiction.
Same thing with contracting. As a licensed contractor, there is immense
potential liability.
Yet AHJ are immune from liability (from an old English law doctrine that
the "king can do no wrong." )
So why argue with someone that is immune from legal consequences? Why
spend the money (which cant be recovered) to fight something he wants done?
It's better to just do what he says and move on to the next job...and
NEVER bid work in that jurisdiction again.
On 7/18/2014 5:04 PM, Taylor, Galen wrote:
Speaking as an AHJ, WE expect architects, engineers, land developers and
contractors to comply with all applicable laws, codes, regulations and
ordinances relative to your project. YOU have every right to expect the same
from us.
You should not shy away from expressing your concern/complaint to the next
higher authority until you've reached the top of the food chain. At the end of
the day everyone will have gained from the experience. It only takes one of you
to make life easier for the next guy. Occasionally, I have been able to educate
an architect, engineer or contractor; but I have been privileged countless time
to learn from them.
On behalf of AHJ's everywhere, I apologize for the difficulties you all have
endured.
Galen Taylor
County of Los Angeles Fire Department
Fire Prevention Engineering
323-890-4339
galen.tay...@fire.lacounty.gov
-----Original Message-----
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On
Behalf Of Jeremy Frazier
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2014 1:31 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Segue to AHJ's from CPVC Underground
The best way to fight that is to look up the law that adopts the adopted code.
See if the law even gives the power to exceed the adopted codes.
Then go to the town/city council talk and have a chat. (changes per state) Be
honest, tell the financial impact of such a decision and there is no basis in
the code, the fmo is exceeding his scope and show them a letter.
I've seen FMOs steamrolled this way, when they actually were 100% right(which
is disappointing), so I imagine it would work the same way if they are 100%
wrong. Of course a pissing match with the AHJ will never end well.
-----Original Message-----
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org]
On Behalf Of rfletc...@aerofire.com
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2014 1:55 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Segue to AHJ's from CPVC Underground
I told him that IFC didn't give him the power to do what he thinks. That's when
he gave me the ultimatum. Can you believe he wrote a letter saying that we have
to EXCEED the adopted codes?
Ron F
-----Original Message-----
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org]
On Behalf Of Cahill, Christopher
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2014 10:26 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Segue to AHJ's from CPVC Underground
Wow, and he doesn't even know what that section says.
" The fire code official is hereby authorized to enforce the provisions of this code
and shall have the authority to render interpretations of this code, and to adopt
policies, procedures, rules and regulations in order to clarify the application of its
provisions. Such interpretations, policies, procedures, rules and regulations shall be in
compliance with the intent and purpose of this code and shall not have the effect of
waiving requirements specifically provided for in this code."
Enforce THIS code... shall be in compliance with the intent and purpose of THIS
code. I don't see where he gets HIS code in place of THIS code. And
interpretation are only allowed to CLARIFY. What's not clear is the issue.
Private contractor AHJ or gov't employed AHJ? Reason being is the contract
doesn't have the same liability protections usually. IOW you can sue a contact
AHJ easier than the gov't. I'd suggest you have your attorney reply.
Hope you have an owner willing to tell them they are moving in without CofO.
'Cuz that's the way it really gets in front of a judge. He's right in that he
can hold the CofO. That's a powerful tool. Only the owner can push this and
move in. Then the AHJ writes a ticket and you get to go to the judge (assuming
the City attorney doesn't squash it) to explain how the gov't is wrong on the
basis of denying the CofO. I've had a few AHJ's cave when an owner tells them
we'll see you in court. But sadly most owners cave and write a check for the
unlawful requirement.
And consider this, the local sprink chapter in MN hired a lawyer a few years
ago to write a white paper about the law and legal limits of what AHJ's can
actually do. It was mailed to every AHJ in the State. I'm out of contracting
now so I don't know how effective it was but at least it made them aware we
weren't a bunch of dumb contractors that will fall for their
every whim.
Chris Cahill, PE*
Associate Fire Protection Engineer
Burns & McDonnell
Phone: 952.656.3652
Fax: 952.229.2923
ccah...@burnsmcd.com
www.burnsmcd.com
*Registered in: MN
Proud to be #14 on FORTUNE's 2014 List of 100 Best Companies to Work For
-----Original Message-----
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org]
On Behalf Of rfletc...@aerofire.com
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2014 12:04 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: Segue to AHJ's from CPVC Underground
It's Friday so I figured I'd whine on the forum. To set the stage, prior to
the letter I am referring to we had approved permitted drawings from the
AHJ. The following is a quote from a letter we received from that same AHJ.
"At this time , Blah Blah Blah Fire Protection District is denying said
plans and is requesting a re-submittal of new plans that exceed IFC, UFC,
and NFPA standards." Nowhere in the body of the letter does he say exactly
how we are to "EXCEED" IFC, UFC and NFPA. In the letter they basically
outline that what was submitted meets the all of the codes. I was told by
the author of the letter at a meeting the day before that he didn't care
what the code said because he is the AHJ and per Section 104 of the IFC he
can make us do whatever he wants. Then he said "do it my way or there will
be no Certificate of Occupancy." We are 4-5 weeks away from a CofO and the
change involves increasing the size of two new diesel pumps that are being
installed. The fire chief told us to go to the State Fire Marshal if we
wanted to appeal. I'm a bit frustrated with AHJ's right now.
Ron F
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