Yes, I'm also referencing the ETL. Have you had your opinion confirmed by MED FPE? I've never considered the ceiling slope provisions to be a density issue. So maybe I've been an overly conservative designer.
Bill Brooks -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mark A. Sornsin, P.E. Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2015 4:41 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: day of questions - Hangars Bill - as Chris just pointed out, The Air Force ETL (which this thread is discussing) references NFPA 13, but not for design densities. Because the ETL defines the design densities, you cannot get to the sloped ceiling requirements of NFPA 13 because they fall under the design densities section of 13, which we are not referencing. Apparently - absent the specific requirement by the ETL to increase design areas - the Air Force considers sloped ceiling to be a non-issue in a high-ex foam / overhead sprinkler system design (or that it is adequately addressed with the 5,000 sq.ft. design area). Mark A. Sornsin, P.E. | Karges-Faulconbridge, Inc. | Fire Protection Engineer | Fargo, ND | direct: 701.552.9905 | mobile: 701.371.5759 | http://www.kfiengineers.com -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bill Brooks Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2015 3:28 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: day of questions - Hangars I specify the area increase for the excessive slope. Bill Brooks -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Scott A Futrell Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2015 2:59 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: day of questions - Hangars This must be one of those design features of a hangar where the fire, the building and the sprinkler system realize it isn't a NFPA 13 design and the sprinklers operate differently (quicker and more effectively) with a slope exceeding 2 in 12 then they do for a sprinkler system installed in a different building with a slope exceeding 2 in 12, right? We always require the thirty percent increase because why would it be any different unless the original specified design area included the increase already? Scott Office: (763) 425-1001x12 Cell: (612) 759-5556 -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mark A. Sornsin, P.E. Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2015 1:50 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: day of questions - Hangars Chris - The ETL references NFPA 13 & 409 at the beginning; then under the sprinkler design section (A1.3.1.1) it references NFPA 13. I don't see a statement NOT to increase design areas (though my experience has been that we do not on these Air Force jobs - just don't recall under what authority). Mark A. Sornsin, P.E. | Karges-Faulconbridge, Inc. | Fire Protection Engineer | Fargo, ND | direct: 701.552.9905 | mobile: 701.371.5759 | http://www.kfiengineers.com _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service. For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com ______________________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service. For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
