Considering that the pressure will vary as other sprinklers and/or hose
connections are opened, the reliability of any coverage above the sprinkler
is
at best questionable. This would be even more pronounced than with extended
coverage sidewalls. It could be a great academic exercise to figure the
throw at
various pressures above the sprinkler height, but I don't see much of a
practical application.
Todd G Williams, PE
Fire Protection Design/Consulting
Stonington, CT
www.fpdc.com
860-535-2080 (ofc)
860-608-4559 (cell)
Sent using CloudMagic
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On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 7:37 AM, [email protected]
<[email protected]> wrote:
The purpose of the sidewall directed at the steel column is to put as much
water as possible on the column to keep it cool and prevent failure. A
sidewall aimed directly at a column will put a lot of water on the steel.
The water will still keep the steel cool above 15', just not as cool as it
will be below 15' level. While your solution is a different way to look at
the problem, I think you will run into liability problems for using a
sprinkler in a manner that it is not listed for. Has anyone done a study to
see how far water will shoot vertically from a sidewall sprinkler at
various
pressures?
Mike Hill
-----Original Message-----
From: Sprinklerforum
[mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Kenneth Berman
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2015 5:20 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Column Protection
Yes, the column protection is to prevent collapse of the structure. The
roof
level helps, but the columns are also blocked in by racks, and they also
have heads to help (unless there's ESFR). Horizontal sidewalls piped out of
the web of the column, and turned around horizontally toward the column,
presents a target for fork lift drivers with pallets of materials.
Why have a sidewall head that throws fourteen feet blocked at three inches
from a column? I'm just trying to get the most bang for my buck with fire
protection. The sprinkler throwing upwards to cool as much as possible, and
surface tension of the water will adhere it to the column steel all the way
to the floor.
On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 4:10 PM, Travis Mack, SET <[email protected]>
wrote:
> The sprinklers at the roof will help to cool the structure. My
> understanding the 15' sprinkler is to help prevent buckling of the
column.
>
> Travis Mack, SET
> MFP Design, LLC
> 2508 E Lodgepole Drive
> Gilbert, AZ 85298
> 480-505-9271
> fax: 866-430-6107
> email:[email protected]
>
> http://www.mfpdesign.com
> https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692
> Send large files to us via: https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign
>
> On 7/6/2015 2:09 PM, Kenneth Berman wrote:
>
>> What cools a fifty foot column above fifteen feet? Codes don't say
>> install horizontal, vertical, up, down. In Tennessee gravity pulls the
water down.
>> I'm cooling twenty nine feet of column to prevent collapse.
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 3:55 PM, John Denhardt <
>> [email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Agree - I never seen one pointed up.
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:
>>> [email protected]] On Behalf Of Travis
>>> Mack, SET
>>> Sent: Monday, July 06, 2015 5:00 PM
>>> To: [email protected]
>>> Subject: Re: Column Protection
>>>
>>> Where does it say the sidewall is pointed up? I have only seen
>>> these installed in the horizontal position for this application.
>>>
>>> Any steel columns shall be protected by 1-hour fireproofing or a
>>> sidewall sprinkler directed to one side of the column at the top or
>>> at the 15 ft (4.6 m) level, whichever is lower. Flow from these
>>> sprinklers shall be permitted to be omitted from the sprinkler
>>> system demand for hydraulic calculations.
>>>
>>>
>>> Travis Mack, SET
>>> MFP Design, LLC
>>> 2508 E Lodgepole Drive
>>> Gilbert, AZ 85298
>>> 480-505-9271
>>> fax: 866-430-6107
>>> email:[email protected]
>>>
>>> http://www.mfpdesign.com
>>> https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692
>>> Send large files to us via: https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign
>>>
>>> On 7/6/2015 1:57 PM, Kenneth Berman wrote:
>>>
>>>> You're all missing an important point, the horizontal sidewall is
>>>> pointed upwards. A vertical sidewall, upwards, is incorrect. The
>>>> horizontal sidewall cools the column from fifteen feet upwards, and
>>>> the water
>>>>
>>> returned
>>>
>>>> by gravity cools the column below fifteen feet.
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 2:50 PM, Parsley Consulting <
>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Rocci,
>>>>> I'd echo Travis and Mark's comments. When all else fails,
>>>>> point to 12.12.2.2.4.1, 16.1.4.1, 17.1.4.1, or 18.2.1 (whichever
>>>>> is appropriate)
>>>>>
>>>> and
>>>
>>>> ask him, politely of course, how he's reaching the conclusion that
>>>> the
>>>>> sidewall sprinkler must be vertical.
>>>>> In short, ask him to "prove it."
>>>>> *Ken Wagoner, SET
>>>>> *Parsley Consulting***
>>>>> *350 West 9th Avenue, Suite 206
>>>>> *Escondido, California 92025
>>>>> *****Phone 760-745-6181*
>>>>> Visit our website <http://www.parsleyconsulting.com/> ***
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 07/06/2015 11:20 AM, Rocci Cetani 3 wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I have a FM questioning the use of horizontal sidewall sprinklers
>>>>> (he
>>>>>> thinks
>>>>>> it should be a vertical sidewall) with no heat collectors @ 15'
>>>>>>
>>>>> AFF...NFPA
>>>
>>>> 13 2013 17.1.4.1 only states a sidewall sprinkler pointed in the
>>>>>> direction of the column @ 15' AFF. Any suggestions?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rocci Cetani III, CET
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lead Designer
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Water-Based Fire Protections Systems Layout, Nicet Level III
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Northern California Fire Protection Services Inc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 16840 Joleen Way Bldg. A
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Morgan Hill, CA 93037
>>>>>>
>>>>>> P-(408) 776-1580 EXT.111
>>>>>>
>>>>>> F-(408) 776-1590
>>>>>>
>>>>>> C- (408) 595-3906
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [email protected]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> www.norcalfire.com <http://www.norcalfire.com/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message and any document
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