Time for me to swear-off posting from memory and hear-say... :) On Apr 25, 2016 4:47 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
> Careful now, note "d" is only if the building didn't require sprinklers. > There's a lot to this issue than just a Table and one note. > > Who is saying to protect the structure and what parts of the structure in > particular and why and to what resistance rating? > > We live in a world of gloriously optimistic anticipation that every > sprinkler system will perform flawlessly and exactly as designed when > called upon to perform its duties. But those insurance guys, now they > might have a different perspective. ;) > > NOTE: New address and phone numbers > Effective 4/11/2016 > Craig L. Prahl > Fire Protection Group Lead/SME > CH2M > 200 Verdae Blvd. > Greenville, SC 29607 > Direct - 864.920.7540 > Fax - 864.920.7129 > CH2MHILL Extension 77540 > [email protected] > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sprinklerforum [mailto: > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Brad > Casterline > Sent: Monday, April 25, 2016 5:40 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Fire proofing and column protection for non-storage > applications > > ok, 'note d' from the table then. > And wouldn't we get into endless difficulties, as sprinkler system > desiners, if we could not count on everything working as designed? > On Apr 25, 2016 4:30 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Yes there can be requirements to provide fire resistive rated steel > > framing in various occupancies. But that should not concern you as > > the sprinkler contractor unless someone has identified using column > > spray as the means to achieve their fire resistive rating based on the > > allowance of such within the fire code. > > > > Different Construction Types as defined within IBC 602 require > > different parts of a structure to be provided with various fire > resistance ratings. > > > > As an example, if you had a building that did not require sprinklers > > per code but that required 1-hour fire resistance rating on steel > > columns, per Table 601 note "d." by putting in automatic sprinklers > > you would satisfy the 1-hour rating requirement. BUT, if the building > > already required sprinklers per code, those required sprinklers would > > not count towards satisfying the 1-hour rating. > > > > Now if the resistance rating is 2-hours or more, you are out of the > > picture and passive protection must be used unless you want to do some > > "time-to-failure" type calculations on the structural elements > > requiring protection and prove your sprinkler flow will meet the > > requirements but most insurers I've dealt with would prefer passive > > fire protection of structures in lieu of active (sprinklers) since any > > impairment to the sprinkler system could result in you having no > > protection for the structure at all. At least with passive > > protection, if applied and maintained properly, there is protection > > regardless of whether or not mechanical systems fail. > > > > NOTE: New address and phone numbers > > Effective 4/11/2016 > > Craig L. Prahl > > Fire Protection Group Lead/SME > > CH2M > > 200 Verdae Blvd. > > Greenville, SC 29607 > > Direct - 864.920.7540 > > Fax - 864.920.7129 > > CH2MHILL Extension 77540 > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Sprinklerforum [mailto: > > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Brad > > Casterline > > Sent: Monday, April 25, 2016 4:17 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: Fire proofing and column protection for non-storage > > applications > > > > Speaking only as someone whom has been pestering the Code People in > > adjacent cubicles for several years, from IBC: > > In a one story steel structure, whether Assembly or Storage, if > > sprinklered, the columns would require no fire resistive rating, the > > kicker being a non-stated but accepted 'note e', I think, type > > understanding that sprinklers provide a One Hour defacto rating, if > > they are not used for height and/or area increases. > > So in your case, if the situation was such that your columns required > > 2 hours resistance, it is questionable whether or not column > > sprinklers would provide that extra hour, whether Assembly or Storage. > > My feeling is it would be fine, but I have only modeled the max temp > > of non-sprinklered columns, for one hour. > > I think if you posted some detail some of the Code Gurus could put the > > thread to bed in hurry :) On Apr 25, 2016 9:36 AM, "rongreenman ." < > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Look in your building and fire code. 13 tells you how, not when. > > > > > > On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 5:07 AM, Mark Phillips > > > <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Sounds like an alternate means and methods > > > > > > > > I have seen it done using NFPA 15 as a guide. (usually exposure > > > protection) > > > > > > > > I seem to recall having to do it in an aircraft hanger also NFPA > > > > 409 > > > > > > > > Its Monday and coffee level is low but hope that points you in the > > > > right direction > > > > > > > > Mark Phillips > > > > Project Manager > > > > > > > > Celebrating 90 Years in Business > > > > Bolton Construction and Service, LLC > > > > 1623 Old Louisburg Road > > > > Raleigh NC, 27604 > > > > Ph: 919-861-1500 > > > > Fax: 919-834-4835 > > > > www.boltonservice.com > > > > Since 1925 > > > > > > > > Residential / Commercial: Plumbing * Heating * Air > > > > Conditioning * Electrical * Generators * Fire > > Sprinkler > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Sprinklerforum [mailto: > > > > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Sean > > > Lockyer > > > > Sent: Monday, April 25, 2016 1:47 AM > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > Subject: Fire proofing and column protection for non-storage > > > > applications > > > > > > > > Is there a requirement for the fire proofing and/or column > > > > protection of steel columns in non-storage applications ? Every > > > > mention of fire > > > proofing > > > > and/or column protection in NFPA 13 involves this taking place in > > > > a > > > storage > > > > occupancy such as tire storage, rack storage, etc. > > > > > > > > However, is there a separate requirement for the fire proofing of > > > > steel columns in say, assembly occupancies ? If there is, where > > > > would I find > > > this > > > > ? In addition, is column protection an acceptable alternative in > > > > such an instance. For clarification, I am NOT referring to the > > > > fire proofing of steel bar joists in office buildings, etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sean Lockyer > > > > Project Designer 4617 > > > > Parkbreeze Court > > > > Cell 386-279-1197 > > Orlando, > > > > Florida 32808 > > > > [email protected] Phone: > > > > 407-816-9101 > > > > www.AITLifeSafety.com Fax: > > > > 407-816-9104 > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprin > > > kl > > > er.org > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprin > > > kl > > > er.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Ron Greenman > > > > > > 4110 Olson Dr., NW > > > Gig Harbor, WA 98335 > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > 253.576.9700 > > > > > > A problem well stated is a problem half solved. -Charles F. > > > Kettering, inventor and engineer (1876-1958) > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > > > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprin > > > kl > > > er.org > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > > er.org _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > > er.org > > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
