So, where is the code section that says pendant sprinklers can be installed in any orientation in ducts? I've just scoured '13 and can't find it.
On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 11:26 AM, Bob <[email protected]> wrote: > Brad, > > It’s all good. I tend to agree with the QR on small booths. Especially > since we are calc’ing for the worst case that all sprinklers will flow > anyway. Seems that opening faster would be a good idea, but then again I’m > not an engineer, just a guy who draws lots of lines and circles. > > > > > > Thank you, > > > > Bob Knight, CET III > > 208-318-3057 > > > > *From:* Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]. > org] *On Behalf Of *Brad Casterline > *Sent:* Tuesday, August 09, 2016 12:21 PM > *To:* [email protected]; [email protected] > > *Subject:* RE: Paint spray application > > > > Yes indeed. > I knew as soon as I hit send it was a bad idea. > I have thought for several years there should be an exception for no QR in > EH, ever since I understood the reasoning. > I should have more soberly made my point that I think small paint booths > are an excellent application -- if you calc all heads flowing why not use > low temp QR? It would be the next best thing to open head deluge, would it > not? > And I apologize for the name calling and meaness of spirit, FWIW. There is > no excuse for that. A big part of how I feel about myself is based on how i > act on this Forum. > > Thanks, > Brad > > On Aug 9, 2016 1:02 PM, "Bob" <[email protected]> wrote: > > I have an example of one that I did in Salt Lake recently. It has 144 > sprinklers in it. This counts all the exhaust ducts and stacks plus the > ceiling sprinklers. > > > > Thank you, > > > > Bob Knight, CET III > > 208-318-3057 > > > > *From:* Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]. > org] *On Behalf Of *[email protected] > *Sent:* Tuesday, August 09, 2016 6:29 AM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* RE: Paint spray application > > > > How many example of industrial spray booths with more than 40 heads would > you like Brad? They exist and are not all that rare. > > > > > *Craig L. Prahl* > Fire Protection Group Lead/SME > *CH2M* > 200 Verdae Blvd. > Greenville, SC 29607 > Direct - 864.920.7540 > > Fax - 864.920.7129 > > CH2MHILL Extension 77540 > [email protected] > > > > *From:* Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]. > org <[email protected]>] *On Behalf Of *Brad > Casterline > *Sent:* Monday, August 08, 2016 8:39 PM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* RE: Paint spray application [EXTERNAL] > > > > Show me a spray booth with forty sprinklers Steve > > On Aug 8, 2016 7:36 PM, "Steve Leyton" <[email protected]> wrote: > > Sure. And fires that can be spread by running fuel such as plastics and > FCL’s (not to mention BLEVE’s) can set off 40 standard response sprinklers > in a minute. I can only imagine the sheer volume of responding sprinklers > and skipping that could occur based on how smooth or bumpy the roof/ceiling > assembly is if you started wantonly plugging QR control-mode sprinklers > into EH fires. (On paper) MDD = .80 ADD = .275 > > > > My opinion only, > > Steve L. > > > > > > > > *From:* Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]. > org] *On Behalf Of *Brad Casterline > *Sent:* Monday, August 08, 2016 5:17 PM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* Re: Paint spray application > > > > Shakey ground is all i have ever known Ken. > I am no more a professional than you are. > THINK MAN! > small spaces with fast fires need the fastest acting sprinklers we can > muster. > I've been in court myself a couple times- neither one over sprinklers > though-- > please stop being so stodgy! > > On Aug 8, 2016 7:05 PM, "Parsley Consulting" <[email protected]> > wrote: > > I don't know, Brad. You're standing on pretty shaky ground there. > > The decision to use QR sprinklers in an extra hazard occpuancy is a direct > contradiction to 8.4.1.1.2 of NFPA 13, including the 2016 edition, or a > similar section number, at least as far back as the 1999 edition. If you > install QR sprinklers in a space that is legitimately classed as an extra > hazard occupancy, aren't you directly contradicting this particular section > of NFPA 13? The handbook provides the following explanatory text on the > topic: > > Extra hazard occupancies are characterized by the probability of > fast-developing fires with high heat release rates that have the potential > to open a large number of quick-response sprinklers before the sprinklers > have time to control the fire. The operation of a large number of > sprinklers in a relatively short time period has the potential to overtax > the system. For this reason, quick-response sprinklers using the area > design method of Chapter 11 are not permitted for the protection of extra > hazard occupancies. Additional perspective on this can be found in the > discussion of safety margin found in B.2.1. > > Further, I'm not aware of any QR sprinkler which has been tested and > listed by an NRTL for use in protecting extra hazard occupancies. Barring > that, to follow the guidance you're suggesting the > contractor/designer/installer has to violate both NFPA 13 AND the listing > of the sprinkler. I'm not suggesting the gloom and doom drama of "people > could die", however it does concern me greatly when I read suggestions to > ignore both texts. > > My thought about that is to make sure your insurance is paid up, and have > a good lawyer on retainer. I don't know of a good defense while sitting in > the witness chair to a question similar to, "Are you telling me you ignored > the applicable law and the manufacturer's recommendations for the > installation of that sprinkler?" > > When I have nightmares I think about having to answer questions similar to > that. > > > > > > > *Ken Wagoner, SETParsley Consulting350 West 9th Avenue, Suite > 206Escondido, California 92025Phone 760-745-6181 <760-745-6181>Visit our > website <http://www.parsleyconsulting.com/> * > > > On 08/08/2016 4:17 PM, Brad Casterline wrote: > > We're not suppose to use QR in EH either but I say balderdash. > That is for big open spaces beacase you could have a bunch of heads going > off way over there when the emergency is way over here. Small spaces with > fast fires are better off if you use low temp qr and calc every head > possible going off > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler. > org > > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler. > org > > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler. > org > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler. > org > >
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