These would be in an Extra Hazard type occupancy, SW sprinkler don’t have any Listed or Approved for EH type occupancies.
The drilled pipe is an option given if there is not a location to install sprinklers where they can be protected from damage from for trucks for example. The thing about that, is they call for dry pilot detection but are worried about an open spray sprinkler being damaged. That made no sense. Busting off a pilot head causes the system to dump, busting off a spray nozzle is a maintenance repair. Good analysis though. Craig L. Prahl Fire Protection Group Lead/SME CH2M 200 Verdae Blvd. Greenville, SC 29607 Direct - 864.920.7540 Fax - 864.920.7129 CH2MHILL Extension 77540 craig.pr...@ch2m.com From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Bruce Verhei Sent: Monday, September 19, 2016 4:39 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: Re: spray bar versus deluge heads for opening protection [EXTERNAL] Why not a large orifice sidewall at each side of each trailer? Going back to objectives, and what is not objective. Writing it out helps, at least me. 1. Goal is not to protect trailer or trailers contents; Assumed after this: 2. Goal is not to keep fire originating in building from spreading to trailer/contents. 3. Goal is to confine fire originating in trailer or at opening from spreading to building. 4. Design to reduce smoke damage is not a consideration. 5. Activation reliability/cost. Normally we think of reliability and cost as being in conflict. In this case I don't think they are. It is my observation that sprinkler heads are much more reliable than detection system coupled to deluge valve. 6. Effectiveness. Some judgement and experience are call for. But I'd expect the sidewall would likely be as or more effective at cooling the plume moving into the building as the drill holes. 7. On-going cost. Sidewall would be cheaper. 8. Feasibility. We'd need to see more detail to see this. 9. Alarm, and response. Deluge detection, and sidewall would both result in response. Assuming waterflow detection and off-site monitoring. Is this an old European national standard that pre-dates the EU? Similar here to that DOD long term housing goods storage in plywood bins, administered by someone who doesn't understand and doesn't care? You might find this has been around for decades, long before higher flow sidewalls were available. (Again, like that outside canopy/loading dock detail showing a dry pendant on a 45. Why? Because it was quite awhile before dry sidewalls were commonly available.) Maybe asking the question will result in a change in practice. To me it sounds like a spec coated in dust. Best Bruce Verhei On Sep 19, 2016, at 08:59, <mphe...@aerofire.com<mailto:mphe...@aerofire.com>> <mphe...@aerofire.com<mailto:mphe...@aerofire.com>> wrote: Because, Ron, it would need to be a fuse that is UL Listed for use with the Keg. (actuating device) But it would be fun to watch the test. Mark at Aero 602 820-7894 From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of rongreenman . Sent: Monday, September 19, 2016 8:50 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> Subject: Re: spray bar versus deluge heads for opening protection Why not just put a barrel of water on top of keg of black powder with a fuse going into the trailer? On Mon, Sep 19, 2016 at 8:47 AM, Brad Casterline <bcasterl...@fsc-inc.com<mailto:bcasterl...@fsc-inc.com>> wrote: That's upstream Gus. I'm just trying to help Craig get out of the (if Mr. Greenman will pardon my French) Remote Area with the calc software he has. :) Brad -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>] On Behalf Of Gus Olson Sent: Monday, September 19, 2016 10:37 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> Subject: RE: spray bar versus deluge heads for opening protection Brad, Don't forget to add a strainer Gus Olson -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>] On Behalf Of Brad Casterline Sent: Monday, September 19, 2016 11:30 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> Subject: RE: spray bar versus deluge heads for opening protection P = 40 PSI K = 1.55 Q = 9.8 GPM 36 GPM / 9.8 = 3.67 holes per nozzle call it 4 :) Brad -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>] On Behalf Of craig.pr...@ch2m.com<mailto:craig.pr...@ch2m.com> Sent: Monday, September 19, 2016 9:57 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> Subject: RE: spray bar versus deluge heads for opening protection Dude, you need serious help. HAHA Now how many average sprinkler designers could have figured that out? But it has to equal the discharge of spray nozzles which are required to provide a minimum of 36 gpm at 40 psi around the perimeter. Craig L. Prahl Fire Protection Group Lead/SME CH2M 200 Verdae Blvd. Greenville, SC 29607 Direct - 864.920.7540<tel:864.920.7540> Fax - 864.920.7129<tel:864.920.7129> CH2MHILL Extension 77540 craig.pr...@ch2m.com<mailto:craig.pr...@ch2m.com> -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>] On Behalf Of Brad Casterline Sent: Monday, September 19, 2016 10:37 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> Subject: RE: spray bar versus deluge heads for opening protection [EXTERNAL] (.25/24)^2 * PI = .000314 ft^2 assume coefficient of discharge of .9 .000314 *.9 = .000283 'imply' 7 PSI 7 / .433 = 16.167 (h) v = (2gh)^.5 = 32.266 ft/sec 32.266 ft/sec * .000283 ft^3 = .00913 ft^3/sec, * 7.48 * 60 = 4.1 GPM Q = 4.1 P = 7.0 K = 1.55 Brad -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>] On Behalf Of craig.pr...@ch2m.com<mailto:craig.pr...@ch2m.com> Sent: Monday, September 19, 2016 9:11 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> Subject: spray bar versus deluge heads for opening protection Today's teaser. An owner gives you this criteria for protecting a truck dock door opening. A semi-trailer is parked at the opening up against the dock seal, the trailer contains wooded pallets. The rollup door and the trailer doors remain open at all times for in and out access. Their recommended method of protecting the opening is to use 1.5" pipe with 1/4" holes drilled every 6". Provide this around the opening which is 12" wide by 9' high. This is approved by their international corporate safety department. This will be a deluge system for two dock doors. How are you going to calculate this? Craig L. Prahl Fire Protection Group Lead/SME CH2M 200 Verdae Blvd. Greenville, SC 29607 Direct - 864.920.7540 Fax - 864.920.7129 CH2MHILL Extension 77540 craig.pr...@ch2m.com<mailto:craig.pr...@ch2m.com> _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org -- Ron Greenman 4110 Olson Dr., NW Gig Harbor, WA 98335 rongreen...@gmail.com<mailto:rongreen...@gmail.com> 253.576.9700 The Universe is monstrously indifferent to the presence of man. -Werner Herzog, screenwriter, film director, author, actor and opera director (1942-) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
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