Define “Area Coverage”.  The duct detector covers or senses within the same 
AREA the air handling system serves.

Does it say in either NFPA 13 or NFPA 72 that a detector has to be listed “FOR 
AREA PROTECTION”?  Actually a detector isn’t really protecting anything, just 
sensing and alarming.


Craig L. Prahl
Fire Protection Group Lead/SME
CH2M
200 Verdae Blvd.
Greenville, SC  29607
Direct - 864.920.7540
Fax - 864.920.7129
CH2MHILL Extension  77540
craig.pr...@ch2m.com


From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On 
Behalf Of michael G
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2016 11:16 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Pre-action detection [EXTERNAL]

Bruce,

They don’t make a Duct detector that is listed for area of protection.   Also 
our other major concern.


Michael Goodis
Estimator, Project Manager
IL#000635   NICET#135586
Key Fire Protection Enterprises LLC
3200 Mike Padgett HWY
Augusta, GA 30906
Office- (706)790-3473
Cell- (706) 220-8822
Fax: (706) 738-2119


From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On 
Behalf Of Bruce Verhei
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2016 11:01 AM
To: 
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
Subject: Re: Pre-action detection

Guess I'll be the angel's advocate. Is the duct detector listed for area 
coverage?

That said, I think (51%) that a detector in the exhaust from each one-person 
cell was used as the detection for such a system in Kent WA. I was not the plan 
reviewer for this project so I am not sure.

Operator is King Co. Constructed as King County Regional Justice Center, 
renamed Norm Maleng Regional Justice Center. I don't have a current contact.

Best

Bruce Verhei

On Sep 20, 2016, at 07:04, <craig.pr...@ch2m.com<mailto:craig.pr...@ch2m.com>> 
<craig.pr...@ch2m.com<mailto:craig.pr...@ch2m.com>> wrote:
Playing devil’s advocate here for a minute, how does the duct detector differ 
from a room detector with regards to its listing for this application?

How does a duct detector sensing room smoke conditions differ from a VESDA 
system which samples air from a room?

Does the HVAC unit serve only the same area as the preaction system covers?

Is there specific verbiage cited within NFPA 13 or NFPA 72 which does not allow 
the use of an HVAC return air smoke detector as an initiating device for a 
preaction system?


Craig L. Prahl
Fire Protection Group Lead/SME
CH2M
200 Verdae Blvd.
Greenville, SC  29607
Direct - 864.920.7540
Fax - 864.920.7129
CH2MHILL Extension  77540
craig.pr...@ch2m.com<mailto:craig.pr...@ch2m.com>

From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On 
Behalf Of Gregg Key
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2016 9:28 AM
To: 
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
Subject: Pre-action detection [EXTERNAL]

Greetings,

                              First of all, what a great convention. Good 
speakers and fellowship. Nashville was awesome as well. I am in serious need of 
some technical assistance. I have posted this a few times with some response 
but this has become a three ring circus between the architect ,fire marshal and 
us . The Architect specified a double interlock pre-action system with the 
detection being provided with a duct detector in the return duct at the unit. 
We have refused to certify the system due the fact that the detector not being 
listed for this application. State is asking me to hang a partial certification 
( yellow tag) . has anyone else dealt with this detection being used for a 
pre-action system in a detention center?   Any help would be appreciated

Gregg Key
General Manager
Key Fire Protection Enterprises,LLC
3200 Mike Padgett Hwy
Augusta GA, 30906
O-706-790-3473
C- 706-220-8821
F- 706-738-2119
gr...@keyfps.com<mailto:gr...@keyfps.com>


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