Craig,
The first comment is valid, if the pipe Rocci described was a "drop to a hose line" it would certainly require flexible couplings per 9.3.2.4. I noted in Rocci's comment that he was considering an 1½", so I conclude that the "other piping" would not apply for lateral bracing as it didn't reach the 2½" minimum for branch lines and other piping. As for the 4-way bracing required in 9.3.5.8, as long as the pipe Rocci's considering doesn't have a change in elevation of 3'-0" or more, there's no need for a 4-way brace. And Ron's point is valid. All system risers are "risers", however, not all "risers" are system risers.


*Ken Wagoner, SET
*Parsley Consulting***
*350 West 9th Avenue, Suite 206
*Escondido, California 92025
*****Phone 760-745-6181*
Visit our website <http://www.parsleyconsulting.com/> ***
On 09/21/2016 10:02 AM, craig.pr...@ch2m.com wrote:

You might want to look at the wording in 9.3.2.4 which deals with Flexible Coupling for Drops where it uses the term “drops to hose lines”.So a line coming off a sprinkler system serving a hose line is referred to as a “drop”, not a riser.

Also, for example, 9.3.5.5 speaking of lateral sway bracing uses the phrase “…and OTHER piping….”, therefore addressing piping in the system which does not fall within the definitions of Feed and Cross Mains and Branch lines which are the typical piping components of a sprinkler system.I would submit that a drop to a hose valve would fall under the “other piping” category.


*Craig L. Prahl**
*Fire Protection Group Lead/SME
*CH2M*
200 Verdae Blvd.
Greenville, SC  29607
Direct - 864.920.7540

Fax - 864.920.7129

CH2MHILL Extension77540
craig.pr...@ch2m.com

*From:*Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] *On Behalf Of *rongreenman .
*Sent:* Wednesday, September 21, 2016 12:40 PM
*To:* sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
*Subject:* Re: small hose connections [EXTERNAL]

You might also want to point out for the approximately 650 lurkers on the forum who may be confused that a riser is any vertical piping, regardless of the direction of water flow that isn't a drop, sprig up or arm over ending with a sprig or drop.

On Wednesday, September 21, 2016, Parsley Consulting <parsleyconsult...@cox.net <mailto:parsleyconsult...@cox.net>> wrote:

    Cliff,
        You've pointed out a conclusion on my part that was not in
what Rocci posted. He didn't say it was a part of a standpipe. That was a supposition on my part.
        If it were a part of a sprinkler system, such as a line
    feeding a hose valve in rack storage, the horizontal portions
    would not require bracing, in my perspective, as they simply
    aren't mains [longitudinal], and aren't branch lines [lateral].
        Now, if they had an elevation change exceeding 3'-0", that
    pipe would be regarded as a "riser", by 3.5.9, it would require a
    4-way brace at the top per 9.3.5.8.1.
        It also might fall into the need for flexible couplings per
    9.3.2.3.1(1).
        Good call.  And I suppose I should acknowledge Craig's
    question, and note that I made the conclusion that since Rocci is
    in California, where almost everything has to be protected from
    earthquake damage, AND he asked the question, that seismic
    protection was necessary on his system.
    sincerely,

    *Ken Wagoner, SET
    Parsley Consulting
    350 West 9th Avenue, Suite 206
    Escondido, California 92025
    Phone 760-745-6181
    Visit our website <http://www.parsleyconsulting.com/> *

    On 09/21/2016 9:10 AM, Cliff Whitfield wrote:

        Ken,

        If this is an 1½” hose line in an NFPA 13 condition (which
        Rocci didn’t actually state but I’m assuming it is), then the
        definition of ‘branch line’ in NFPA 14 would not apply.  If
        that is the case, would this still be considered a ‘branch
        line’ or does it become a ‘feed main’?

        Cliff Whitfield

        *From:* Sprinklerforum
        [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org
        
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org');>]
        *On Behalf Of *Parsley Consulting
        *Sent:* Wednesday, September 21, 2016 12:06 PM
        *To:* sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
        <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org');>
        *Subject:* Re: small hose connections

        Rocci,
            Glad to see you made it back safely from Nashville, and it
        was great to meet there and put a face with the name.
            By the definition in section 3.3.2 of NFPA 14 [2013 ed],
        the pipe you describe is a "branch line."  Section 6.1.2.5 of
        that document advises that you need to follow NFPA 13 to
        provide protection against damage from earthquakes.
            Lateral bracing for that line is not required per NFPA 13
        [2013] 9.3.5.5.1, as it is not a branch line 2½" or larger.
            Longitudinal bracing for that line is not required per
        9.5.6.1 as it is not a feed or cross main.
            My opinion only.  Please see the disclaimer below.
        sincerely,

        *Ken Wagoner, SET
        Parsley Consulting
        350 West 9th Avenue, Suite 206
        Escondido, California 92025
        Phone 760-745-6181
        Visit our website <http://www.parsleyconsulting.com/> *

        *IMPORTANT NOTICE: This correspondence is not a Formal
        Interpretation issued pursuant to NFPA Regulations. Any
        opinion expressed is the personal opinion of the author and
        does not necessarily represent the official position of the
        NFPA or its Technical Committees. In addition, this
        correspondence is neither intended, nor should it be relied
        upon, to provide professional consultation or services

        It should be noted that the above is my opinion as a member of
        the NFPA Automatic Sprinkler System Hanging and Bracing
        Committee in accordance with the NFPA Regulations Governing
        Committee Projects and should therefore not be considered, nor
        relied upon, as the official position of the NFPA or its
        Committees*


        On 09/21/2016 8:17 AM, Rocci Cetani 3 wrote:

            Do I need to earthquake brace my 1½” feed for hose
            connections?

            */Rocci Cetani III, /**CET*

            /Designer/

            /Water-Based Fire Protections Systems Layout, Nicet Level III/

            *//*

            *Northern California Fire Protection Services Inc.*

            16840 Joleen Way Bldg. A

            Morgan Hill, CA 93037

            P-(408) 776-1580 EXT.111

            F-(408) 776-1590

            roc...@norcalfire.com
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