I put the XL spread sheets for the 'devices'  in there too. It is
interesting to make graphs of the bulb temp, air temp, and air velocity.


anybody feel free to contact me off forum at:





From: Sprinklerforum []
On Behalf Of Brad Casterline
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 10:25 PM
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] FM and Concealed Sprinklers


Absolutely Allen, all four of them!
I haven't figured out how to do that with my phone yet though, so I'll put
them on my thumb drive and take it to the office in the morning and make a
Dropbox folder and put them in that and make a link and post it here and we
can take this off-Forum!

Just give me a few hours!

On Oct 11, 2016 10:11 PM, "AKS-Gmail-IMAP" <> wrote:

Would you post the .fds file?


Allan Seidel

St. Louis, MO


On Oct 11, 2016, at 10:12 AM, Brad Casterline <>


A Quick Response sprinkler does not necessarily activate sooner than a
standard response sprinkler!

For example, 155 SRs at 120 S.F. spacing might activate sooner than 155 QRs
at 225 S.F., be they regular pendent or concealers.


We are allowed to use design area reduction when the RTI is 50 (m-s)^2 or
less and it is listed as quick response, and three other conditions are met.
The RTI is the physical, non site specific property of the sprinkler, and
the 'listed as quick response' is the various spacings, ceiling heights,
etc. tested, with some kind of pass/fail citeria, which i assume includes a
range of minimum 'real' activation times.


I used 50 and 80 RTI for the QR and SR in the four activation times I
showed. In more detailed scenarios I have used 38 and 90 based on glass bulb
manufactures published data. I kind of winged the concealer cover plate, but
not totally-- I input specific heat, conductivity, and density for a dab of
solder, and made the plate disappear when the dab reached 135F.


I have been using FDS-SMV for 10 years. For sprinkler activation it is for
personal curiosity and to try to get a little more insight than I can get
from NFPA alone.

I don't try to predict anything, I like looking at 'differences', based on
RTI, Temp rating, ceiling height, and spacing.

Fascinating stuff, and I'm glad you brought the 'concealer twist' to my
activation curiosity Pete!  








From: Sprinklerforum [
<>] On Behalf Of
Larrimer, Peter A
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 9:18 AM
To:  <>
Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] RE: FM and Concealed Sprinklers


I can't say I know what you are using for your model, nor how you model
RTI's for concealed heads and cover plates, but it sort of begs the
question.  Why is there a NFPA 13 reduction in design areas for LH and OH
when the QR concealed head might be slower than a standard response;
assuming your model results are close to accurate regarding response times.


Considering that most fires are controlled with the first one or two
sprinklers in LH and OH facility fires, maybe the QR vs SR isn't a big deal
when it comes to required design areas?  




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