Thanks Ken, the way you phrased your response I thought I had miss something the last several years. Cheers! Owen
Sent from my iPhone > On Jan 23, 2017, at 12:22 PM, Parsley Consulting <[email protected]> > wrote: > > Owen, > for at least the last fifteen years that has been the case. > Ken Wagoner, SET > Parsley Consulting > 350 West 9th Avenue, Suite 206 > Escondido, California 92025 > Phone 760-745-6181 > Visit our website >> On 01/23/2017 10:40 AM, Owen Evans wrote: >> Hello Ken, thanks for responding. >> >> So California adopts the IFC with California amendments and then calls it >> the CFC, correct? >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Parsley Consulting <[email protected]> >> To: sprinklerforum <[email protected]> >> Sent: Mon, Jan 23, 2017 10:27 am >> Subject: Re: PIV Supervion, lock or tamper switch? >> >> Owen, >> >> The California Fire Code is very specific, and it would seem unambiguous >> for the conditions you describe. >> 903.4 Sprinkler system supervision and alarms. All valves controlling the >> water supply for automatic sprinkler systems, pumps, tanks, water levels and >> temperatures, critical air pressures and water-flow switches on >> all sprinkler systems shall be electrically supervised by a listed >> fire alarm control unit. >> Exceptions: >> 1. Automatic sprinkler systems protecting one- and two-family dwellings. >> Doesn't apply to the buildings you've described >> >> 2. Limited area systems serving fewer than 20 sprinklers. >> Doesn't apply to the buildings you've described >> >> 3. Automatic sprinkler systems installed in >> accordance with NFPA 13R where a common supply main is used to supply both >> domestic water and the automatic sprinkler system, and a separate shutoff >> valve for the automatic sprinkler system is not provided. >> Depending on the underground supply, might or might not apply >> >> 4. Jockey pump control valves that are sealed or locked in the open position. >> Doesn't apply to the PIV >> >> 5. Control valves to commercial kitchen hoods, paint spray booths or dip >> tanks that are sealed or locked in the open position. >> Doesn't apply to the PIV >> >> 6. Valves controlling the fuel supply to fire pump engines that are sealed >> or locked in the open position. >> Doesn't apply to the PIV >> >> 7. Trim valves to pressure switches in dry, preaction and deluge sprinkler >> systems that are sealed or locked in the open position. >> Doesn't apply to the PIV >> It does appear, based entirely on the information you've provided, that >> electrical supervision is required for the PIV. >> >> And, not to split hairs or to be pedantic, California is not under the >> regulations in the 2013 IFC. California, as it does with almost everything, >> has made it's own modifications to that document and has issued the 2013 >> California Fire Code, which has as of January 1 been replaced with the 2016 >> edition of the CFC. >> >> Chapter 80 of that document contains a list of the applicable editions >> of various standards and codes, including the NFPA documents. Further, that >> chapter of the CFC contains language on changes to the NFPA documents. As >> an example - in California, the reduction of the remote area size for use of >> quick response sprinklers in an area with a ceiling height of 20' or less is >> not allowed in ordinary hazard occupancies, even though NFPA 13 does allow >> that reduction. >> >> I've had to deal with some terribly angry contractors who were unaware >> of those provisions. They've said some pretty creative and hostile things >> when I've pointed them out, including some I'm sure aren't true, as I have a >> photo of my parents' wedding, and it was 14 years before I was born! >> >> sincerely, >> Ken Wagoner, SET >> Parsley Consulting >> 350 West 9th Avenue, Suite 206 >> Escondido, California 92025 >> Phone 760-745-6181 >> Visit our website >> >> On 01/23/2017 9:25 AM, Owen Evans wrote: >> As most of you know, I work exclusively with 13D systems. I do on occasion >> get questions on the big boy systems, 13 and 13R. The property in question >> is a boutique hotel, two buildings. One building >> is a two story, fifty room hotel and the other building is two story, >> restaurant on the first floor and banquet facility on second floor with a >> roof deck. Each building has a FDC and a PIV. I am in California which is >> under the 2013 IFC. >> >> I recently had the question asked "does the PIV require electrical >> supervision?" NFPA states a lock is adequate, the 2013 IFC states >> electrical supervision is required, with exceptions. I get different answers >> form different people. I'm thinking it's the more restrictive 2013 IFC. >> Which is it? >> >> Thank you, >> Owen Evans >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
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