Craig I was specifically referring to the seal on the back or dirty side of the lid. I'm on my phone right now so can't type a wall of text for you, but if you're interested tomorrow I'll be happy to expound.
On Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 5:12 PM Prahl, Craig/GVL <[email protected]> wrote: > The TYCO Royal Flush does speak of air flow around the plate in one > section of the data sheet but it also shows a positive seal between the > plate and ceiling when you purchase the gasketed cover. It’s detailed in > the data sheet. > > > > Viking’s cleanroom sprinkler cover assembly also has a built-in gasket to > provide a positive seal. > > > > You can’t have it both ways, a positive seal and free flow of air through > the sprinkler between the cleanroom and ceiling space. > > > > If you have airflow through the sprinkler you will not achieve certain > level of cGMP, FDA or ISO standards. But like stated before, the term > Cleanroom covers a broad array of hygiene so in some cases a simple > concealed sprinkler is more than adequate but in other cases a concealed > sprinkler alone would not provide adequate infiltration protection. > > > > > *Craig L. Prahl* > Fire Protection Group Lead/SME > *CH2M* > 200 Verdae Blvd. > Greenville, SC 29607 > Direct - 864.920.7540 > > Fax - 864.920.7129 > > CH2MHILL Extension 77540 > [email protected] > > > > *From:* Sprinklerforum [mailto: > [email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Ben Young > *Sent:* Wednesday, October 18, 2017 5:00 PM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* Re: Clean Room Sprinkler Options [EXTERNAL] > > > > The listing of the concealed sprinkler requires airflow out the top of the > clean room lid. I'm going through this now on a project and you cannot seal > both sides. If you check with any concealed sprinkler manufacturer they > will tell you that airflow out the top of the cup is required. > > > > On Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 4:31 PM Prahl, Craig/GVL <[email protected]> > wrote: > > The cover is held on by solder tabs which melt and release the cover when > the setpoint temperature of the cover plate is reached. > > > > You can also purchase a dust and air seal to prevent air and dust from > passing through the cover plate. > > > > > > > > > > *Craig L. Prahl *Fire Protection Group Lead/SME > *CH2M* > 200 Verdae Blvd. > Greenville, SC 29607 > Direct - 864.920.7540 > > Fax - 864.920.7129 > > CH2MHILL Extension 77540 > [email protected] > > > > *From:* Sprinklerforum [mailto: > [email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Mark > Sornsin [FAR] > *Sent:* Wednesday, October 18, 2017 4:17 PM > *To:* '[email protected]' < > [email protected]> > > > *Subject:* RE: Clean Room Sprinkler Options [EXTERNAL] > > > > I would also argue that unless the manufacturer declares that the ‘holes > in the cup’ cannot be covered, then there may not really be an issue with > regard to increased response time (even if the response actually equates > more with SR). > > > > Moreover, this is a clean room. If the sprinklers are activating it’s too > late for the material/equipment in the clean room – they are providing > life-safety benefits and controlling a fire to prevent spread to other > parts of the building. Does it REALLY matter if it is QR or SR? > > > > > > [image: Visit our Website at www.SummitCoUS.com] > <http://www.SummitCoUS.com> > > *Mark* *Sornsin* > Sr. Fire Protection Engineer > Direct: 701-499-1391 > Cell: 701-526-8585 > > > > *From:* Sprinklerforum [ > mailto:[email protected] > <[email protected]>] *On Behalf Of *Prahl, > Craig/GVL > *Sent:* Wednesday, October 18, 2017 7:26 AM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* RE: Clean Room Sprinkler Options > > > > Cleanrooms come in various classifications. In some cases, you cannot > have a standard pendent sprinkler as it would create surfaces where dust > and other foreign material could collect and would also be difficult to > clean. > > > > There is not a perfect sprinkler solution for cleanroom spaces but when > you are dealing with pharmaceutical, food, or other consumable and/or > regulated materials, the rules for hygiene restrict you from using the same > sprinkler you might use at the grocery store. > > > > > > > > > > *Craig L. Prahl *Fire Protection Group Lead/SME > *CH2M* > 200 Verdae Blvd. > Greenville, SC 29607 > Direct - 864.920.7540 > > Fax - 864.920.7129 > > CH2MHILL Extension 77540 > [email protected] > > > > *From:* Sprinklerforum [ > mailto:[email protected] > <[email protected]>] *On Behalf Of *Larry > Keeping > *Sent:* Tuesday, October 17, 2017 11:55 PM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* RE: Clean Room Sprinkler Options [EXTERNAL] > > > > I’m no expert on clean rooms or concealed sprinkler’s etc. and while I > think the dry sprinkler with the boot is an interesting concept, but I > don’t think it is meant for that type of application. The brochure for the > boot says it is intended predominantly for use with clearance holes through > freezer ceiling structures. > > > > I would advise against using any concealed (or recessed) type sprinklers > in a clean room, because they are all vented. I understand this is because > the heat from the fire is supposed to flow through the vents up into the > ceiling space. Concealed sprinklers have that gap for the cover plate as > part of the venting configuration. > > > > Even the Reliable “sealing” concealed sprinkler, which seals off the cover > plate gap is not allowed in ceilings which have positive pressure. > > > > I’ve been told that the reason FM doesn’t sanction Q/R concealed > sprinklers is because their testing has found that a Q/R concealed > sprinkler’s sensitivity is roughly equal to a standard response sprinkler > installed 12 inches below the ceiling. With this, if you interfere with > sprinkler’s ability to vent up into the ceiling space, as with a boot tight > to the cup (ie. with no clearance hole) or with insulation all around the > sprinkler, you must be even more seriously degrading the sensitivity. > > > > If it was up to me I’d use a standard pendant sprinkler in clean room > applications. > > > > Way-back-when, I did some work at Litton systems and they had a special > custom fitting/escutcheon with a gasket to make a tight connection to the > ceiling, so nothing could transfer from the concealed space into the clean > room. > > > > Larry Keeping > > > > *From:* Sprinklerforum [ > mailto:[email protected] > <[email protected]>] *On Behalf Of *Prahl, > Craig/GVL > *Sent:* October-17-17 4:17 PM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* RE: Clean Room Sprinkler Options > > > > If you have a LH or OH criteria where the concealed heads can be used, one > method that was approved by one of the big insurers for a similar > installation used the TYCO DSB-2 dry sprinkler boot on the sprinkler drop. > The boot was placed over the drop and sealed against the upper side of the > celling panel. The concealed sprinkler used the gasket option on the room > side of the sprinkler. > > > > This method according to the underwriter had been proven to stop any > infiltration into the occupied space from the ceiling cavity. > > > > But if you have an EH occupancy, then that’s another story. > > > > I would highly recommend contacting the owner’s Risk Consultant or > Insurance Underwriter or EOR for input or approval on any method proposed. > > > > Since this could be a “H” occupancy I do certainly hope there is a > qualified engineer involved in the project. > > > > > > *Craig L. Prahl *Fire Protection Group Lead/SME > *CH2M* > 200 Verdae Blvd. > Greenville, SC 29607 > Direct - 864.920.7540 > > Fax - 864.920.7129 > > CH2MHILL Extension 77540 > [email protected] > > > > *From:* Sprinklerforum [ > mailto:[email protected] > <[email protected]>] *On Behalf Of *Larrimer, > Peter A > *Sent:* Tuesday, October 17, 2017 3:16 PM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* Clean Room Sprinkler Options [EXTERNAL] > > > > Can anyone please assist with a recommendation for a “clean room” > sprinkler where the clean rooms are designed to be negative pressure (for > compounding dangerous drugs). > > > > The concealed sprinkler cut sheets that I’ve looked at online generally > say that the concealed heads cannot be used in negative pressure rooms > (positive pressure plenums) and this is the type of room design that we > require. The FlexHead cleanroom ceiling sprinkler connection doesn’t > appear to be easy to clean after installation. > > > > What type of quick response sprinkler could be used in a negative pressure > room that is readily and easily cleanable? Users wanted to used concealed > sprinklers as they thought that the concealed sprinklers would be easy to > wipe down when necessary, but we don’t want to violate the installation > instructions on the cut sheets that state that the concealed sprinklers > can’t be used with positive pressure plenums (negative pressure rooms). > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > Pete Larrimer > > VA > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service. > For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com > ______________________________________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > > -- > > > Benjamin Young > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > -- Benjamin Young
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