That’s what I was looking for!  Thanks Ben.

Reed A. Roisum, SET | Karges-Faulconbridge, Inc. | Senior Fire Protection 
Designer | Fargo, ND | direct: 701.552.9903 | mobile: 701.388.1352 | 
KFIengineers.com<http://www.kfiengineers.com>
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On 
Behalf Of Ben Young
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 11:45 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: Re: Flammable and Combustible Liquid Storage

Check out the requirements in NFPA 45 for labs. This should tell you what the 
hazard is based on the quantity and configuration of the liquids stored.


Benjamin Young

On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 12:32 PM, Reed A. Roisum, SET 
<raroi...@kfi-eng.com<mailto:raroi...@kfi-eng.com>> wrote:
Small containers taken out and used.  Not sure on the exact processes that go 
on.  I have all classes of flammable and combustible liquids present but the 
highest volumes are Class IB Flammable Liquids.  There are a variety of 
container sizes but all containers are less than 119 gallon individual capacity 
so Chapter 9 of NFPA 30, 2012 edition applies (Storage of Liquids in 
Containers).

Chapter 16 of NFPA 30 gives specific design criteria depending on the liquid 
class, container type, and storage configuration.  What I am looking for is 
something that says since we are stored in cabinets, none of this applies and 
protect to ??.

I did review Chapter 18 of NFPA 30, Dispensing, Handling, Transfer, and Use of 
Liquids, but I couldn't find specific fire sprinkler design criteria for the 
use of these liquids.  It does give maximum quantities of liquids permitted for 
incidental operations in a fire area, but doesn't say if you are using a 
certain amount of a certain class that you should protect to Ordinary or Extra 
Hazard.

Do you know where I can find design criteria for the use of flammable and 
combustible liquids?  If we have all storage in cabinets and small quantities 
are taken out and used in the lab facility is there something in NFPA 30 that 
says protect these areas to OH2?  It seems reasonable to me but I need to 
justify it with something solid and written in the standard.

Thanks.

Reed




Reed A. Roisum, SET | Karges-Faulconbridge, Inc. | Senior Fire Protection 
Designer | Fargo, ND | direct: 701.552.9903<tel:701.552.9903> | mobile: 
701.388.1352<tel:701.388.1352> | http://www.kfiengineers.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Sprinklerforum 
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>]
 On Behalf Of Prahl, Craig/GVL
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 10:56 AM
To: 
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
Subject: RE: Flammable and Combustible Liquid Storage

When the liquids are taken out of the cabinets, what is done with them?  Is 
there any dispensing going on within the area where they are stored?

Storing them in a cabinet may not drive the design criteria but how and where 
they are used once taken outside the cabinet can certainly affect your criteria.

You also need to know what size are these containers?  Are they 1 gallon pails 
or 55 gallon drums?  What classification of materials are they, class I 
flammables or Class III combustibles?

Are these vented or non-vented cabinets?  Another issue to contend with.

If these are incidental volumes used in a lab where small quantities are 
removed and used then OH2 may be appropriate.

All these things need to be analyzed before you determine the design criteria.


Craig L. Prahl
Fire Protection Group Lead/SME
Direct - 864.920.7540<tel:864.920.7540>
Fax - 864.920.7129<tel:864.920.7129>
Direct Extension  77540
CH2M is now Jacobs.
200 Verdae Blvd.
Greenville, SC  29607
craig.pr...@ch2m.com<mailto:craig.pr...@ch2m.com>
http://www.jacobs.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Sprinklerforum 
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>]
 On Behalf Of Reed A. Roisum, SET
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 10:39 AM
To: 
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
Subject: Flammable and Combustible Liquid Storage [EXTERNAL]

IFC 2012 Table 5003.1.1 gives the maximum allowable quantities of flammable and 
combustible liquids per control area.  If the liquids are stored in approved 
cabinets you can increase the volume by 100%.

I am trying to determine the proper sprinkler design for areas that contain 
flammable and combustible liquids that are stored in approved cabinets.  NFPA 
13, 2010 edition states that occupancies with moderate to substantial amounts 
of flammable or combustible liquids shall be designed to Extra Hazard Group 2 
(5.4.2).  However, I am confident that because the liquids are in cabinets that 
this space would not be designed to EH2, but I can't find any verbiage that 
explicitly says so.  I believe Ordinary Hazard Group 2 is adequate but I need 
to document from the codes and standards my reasoning.

Can anyone point me to a code or standard section that states that if flammable 
or combustible liquids are stored in approved cabinets that you basically don't 
have to account for their presence?...at least I believe that is the intent so 
please correct me if I am wrong.

Thank you.

Reed Roisum


Reed A. Roisum, SET | Karges-Faulconbridge, Inc. | Senior Fire Protection 
Designer | Fargo, ND | direct: 701.552.9903 | mobile: 701.388.1352 | 
http://www.kfiengineers.com


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