As Steve pointed out, it is a building. That gets you to point of sprinklers. 

I guess this comes to a point of defining this structure as an exterior 
projection or a building. 

I agree with Steve and see it as a building as described. 

What I was getting at is we sprinkler people often search NFPA standards for 
all of our answers. However the answer may lie in the code and not the 
standard. 

Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
"Follow" us on Facebook: 
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692
Send large files to MFP Design via:
https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 13, 2018, at 4:16 PM, Kyle.Montgomery <kmontgom...@aerofire.com> wrote:
> 
> So, Travis, what is the “clear” answer in the building code?
>  
> As far as I can tell, it’s still an exterior projection of noncombustible 
> construction. Thus, the entire argument hinges on whether or not there will 
> be combustibles stored beneath.
>  
> I’ll allow for the argument that there could “potentially” be combustible 
> storage, but that would be up to an AHJ interpretation.
>  
> Assuming you could win the “actual” versus “potential” argument, I say no 
> sprinkler protection required if there is no combustible storage.
>  
> Show me where the building code says otherwise… and then show me how this 
> area is different than other exterior projections where sprinkler may be 
> omitted.
>  
> “A.8.15.7 … Exterior projections include, but are not limited to, exterior 
> roofs, canopies, porte-cocheres, balconies, decks, or similar projections.”
>  
> Is there a definition of “exterior projection” somewhere that limits it to 
> less than 2,000 sq. ft.? I can admit that this is a larger area than I would 
> normally see this applied to.
>  
> -Kyle M
>  
> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] 
> On Behalf Of Travis Mack
> Sent: Friday, April 13, 2018 3:55 PM
> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Exterior Play Area
>  
> We need a LIKE button for emails. So many times people get lost debating NFPA 
> 13 criteria when the answer is quite clear in the building code. 
>  
>  
> 
> Travis Mack, SET
> MFP Design, LLC
> "Follow" us on Facebook: 
> https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692
> Send large files to MFP Design via:
> https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign
>  
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Apr 13, 2018, at 2:11 PM, Steve Leyton <st...@protectiondesign.com> wrote:
> 
> No it ISN'T outside "the" building.  It's attached and by definition it's a 
> building and it doesn’t matter if it's open or not.   If a fire starts under 
> this structure it could spread to the building it's attached to easily - or 
> are you 100% certain that a Boys and Girls Club is going to keep all 
> communicating doors closed all the time and facing windows closed?  You're 
> fixating on Chapter 8 of the standard but this isn't a sprinkler question.   
> NFPA 13 doesn't require sprinklers in buildings, the building code does.  
> Don't take my word for it - go look it up in the IBC.    This is a building.
> 
> SML
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] 
> On Behalf Of bcasterl...@fsc-inc.com
> Sent: Friday, April 13, 2018 2:07 PM
> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
> Subject: Re: Exterior Play Area
> 
> It dosent say those things because it's outside the building Steve.
> It's a shade structure, like you meant. Sprinklers would just make a big 
> mess. Open on three sides and non-comb means no life safety issue and if 
> that's where it starts it won't get inside before the FD gets there. These 
> 12-17 year old Boys and Girls probably started it, thinking some Smores 
> sounded good.
> 
> Brad
> 
> 
> Quoting Steve Leyton <st...@protectiondesign.com>:
> 
> 
> Y'all need to read the definition of "Building" in the Building Code:
>  
> "Any structure used or intended for supporting or sheltering any use
> or occupancy."
>  
> It doesn't mention walls or doors, it doesn't mention construction
> type or combustibility of materials.  So the area in question IS a
> building.   That by John's description is ATTACHED to another  
> (sprinklered) building and is used for occupancy by children where
> there is a measurable fire load (whether or not it is a profound fire
> load, there is one).
>  
> So once again, from the top:  NFPA 13 doesn't exclude this area
> because it's occupied and has or potentially has combustibles below
> it.  The building code defines it as a building.   Why don't we have  
> to sprinkler it?
>  
> Steve
>  
>  
>  
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sprinklerforum
> [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of
> bcasterl...@fsc-inc.com
> Sent: Friday, April 13, 2018 12:10 PM
> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
> Subject: Re: Exterior Play Area
>  
> I vote no sprinklers required -- open and noncombustible- the
> rockinghorse on a spring is like a newspaper machine - there will
> always be just one of them- not one today and twelve tomorrow.
>  
> Brad.
>  
> Quoting Steve Leyton <st...@protectiondesign.com>:
>  
> 8.15.7.5.
>  
> From: Sprinklerforum
> [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of
> John Irwin
> Sent: Friday, April 13, 2018 11:10 AM
> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
> Subject: RE: Exterior Play Area
>  
> I can appreciate your opinion, but I need a code reference.  😉
>  
> John Irwin
> DynaFire Inc. – “Same Day – Next Day”
>  
> From: Sprinklerforum
> <sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum
> - boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>> On Behalf Of Steve Leyton
> Sent: Friday, April 13, 2018 1:47 PM
> To:
> sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerfo...@lists.fi
> r
> esprinkler.org>
> Subject: RE: Exterior Play Area
>  
> Assuming there’s play equipment there (fire load) and knowing that
> there are kids occupying the space, I wouldn’t call this an
> “exterior projection”.   It’s a shad structure with occupancy below
> and IMO requires sprinkler protection.
>  
> SML
>  
> From: Sprinklerforum
> [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of
> John Irwin
> Sent: Friday, April 13, 2018 10:42 AM
> To:
> sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerfo...@lists.fi
> r
> esprinkler.org>
> Subject: Exterior Play Area
>  
> Protecting a light hazard Boys and Girls Club. I excluded an
> exterior, but covered, attached and open play area. Non-combustible.
> It’s a couple thousand square feet. I excluded using NFPA 13 2013
> 8.15.7
>  
> Client is telling me that he her other fire sprinkler guys telling
> him he needs sprinklers in that areas.
>  
> What say you?
>  
> [cid:image001.png@01D3D318.846AE470]
>  
>  
> John Irwin
> Fire Sprinkler Specialist
> DynaFire, Inc. – “Same Day – Next Day”
> 727-282-9243 – Cell
>  
> “A customer is the most important visitor on our premises. He is not
> dependent on us. We are dependent on him. He is not an interruption
> on our work. He is the purpose of it. He is not an outsider on our
> business. He is a part of it. We are not doing him a favour by
> serving him. He is doing us a favour by giving us an opportunity to do so.”
>  
>  
>  
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