Aww now you're going to make me pause Boss Baby and get my laptop.

I should also note that there are "engineered FPs" with this set but give no 
direction on anything..  Florida engineering laws really need to change..

⁣John Irwin 
DynaFire Inc. 
Tampa Fire Sprinkler Division 
727-282-9243 

This email was sent from a mobile device. Please forgive brevity, typographical 
errors, and grammatical gaffes.​

On Apr 13, 2018, 8:26 PM, at 8:26 PM, Travis Mack <tm...@mfpdesign.com> wrote:
>Is that considered a building? Check the architectural code study. That
>should say if the architect is half decent.
>
>If it defined as an exterior projection then follow the means to omit
>in NFPA 13.  If the code study calls it a building, then you protect.
>It can’t be a projection if it is a building. All comes down to how the
>architect has it defined.
>
>Travis Mack, SET
>MFP Design, LLC
>"Follow" us on Facebook:
>https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692
>Send large files to MFP Design via:
>https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Apr 13, 2018, at 5:18 PM, John Irwin <john.ir...@dynafire.com>
>wrote:
>>
>> I spend nearly as much time in the Florida Building Code as I do NFPA
>13.
>>
>> So riddle me this Batman (and I'm not saying you're wrong here) but
>here in Florida plenty of schools have covered play areas that are not
>attached to any building. Many are large enough for a full sized
>basketball court. Are these buildings? They certainly aren't
>sprinklered.
>>
>> And let's say for the sake of argument that the area in question is
>part of the building. Isn't a Porte Cochre also part of the building?
>Typically the building code tells us sprinklers yes or sprinklers no.
>And then NFPA 13 tells us how to sprinkler. Clearly NFPA 13 has
>exceptions for overhangs and exterior projections and these exceptions
>dont appear to have an area limitation.
>>
>> As a matter of fact, where the Florida Building Code and Florida Fire
>Prevention Code differ from NFPA 13 and call for protection not
>required by NFPA, its clearly spelled out. For many years the
>requirement for balcony sprinklers in combustible construction of 13R
>buildings was found in the building code where it was omitted by 13R.
>>
>> So I say, if this is considered part of the building and the FBC says
>protect the building per NFPA 13, NFPA 13 still gives me the omission.
>>
>> John Irwin
>> DynaFire Inc.
>> Tampa Fire Sprinkler Division
>> 727-282-9243
>>
>> This email was sent from a mobile device. Please forgive brevity,
>typographical errors, and grammatical gaffes.
>>> On Apr 13, 2018, at 7:37 PM, Travis Mack <tm...@mfpdesign.com>
>wrote:
>>> As Steve pointed out, it is a building. That gets you to point of
>sprinklers.
>>>
>>> I guess this comes to a point of defining this structure as an
>exterior projection or a building.
>>>
>>> I agree with Steve and see it as a building as described.
>>>
>>> What I was getting at is we sprinkler people often search NFPA
>standards for all of our answers. However the answer may lie in the
>code and not the standard.
>>>
>>> Travis Mack, SET
>>> MFP Design, LLC
>>> "Follow" us on Facebook:
>https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692
>>> Send large files to MFP Design via:
>>> https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Apr 13, 2018, at 4:16 PM, Kyle.Montgomery
><kmontgom...@aerofire.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> So, Travis, what is the “clear” answer in the building code?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As far as I can tell, it’s still an exterior projection of
>noncombustible construction. Thus, the entire argument hinges on
>whether or not there will be combustibles stored beneath.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I’ll allow for the argument that there could “potentially” be
>combustible storage, but that would be up to an AHJ interpretation.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Assuming you could win the “actual” versus “potential” argument, I
>say no sprinkler protection required if there is no combustible
>storage.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Show me where the building code says otherwise… and then show me
>how this area is different than other exterior projections where
>sprinkler may be omitted.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> “A.8.15.7 … Exterior projections include, but are not limited to,
>exterior roofs, canopies, porte-cocheres, balconies, decks, or similar
>projections.”
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Is there a definition of “exterior projection” somewhere that
>limits it to less than 2,000 sq. ft.? I can admit that this is a larger
>area than I would normally see this applied to.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -Kyle M
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: Sprinklerforum
>[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of
>Travis Mack
>>>> Sent: Friday, April 13, 2018 3:55 PM
>>>> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
>>>> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Exterior Play Area
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We need a LIKE button for emails. So many times people get lost
>debating NFPA 13 criteria when the answer is quite clear in the
>building code.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Travis Mack, SET
>>>> MFP Design, LLC
>>>> "Follow" us on Facebook:
>https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692
>>>> Send large files to MFP Design via:
>>>> https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 13, 2018, at 2:11 PM, Steve Leyton
><st...@protectiondesign.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> No it ISN'T outside "the" building.  It's attached and by
>definition it's a building and it doesn’t matter if it's open or not.
>If a fire starts under this structure it could spread to the building
>it's attached to easily - or are you 100% certain that a Boys and Girls
>Club is going to keep all communicating doors closed all the time and
>facing windows closed?  You're fixating on Chapter 8 of the standard
>but this isn't a sprinkler question.   NFPA 13 doesn't require
>sprinklers in buildings, the building code does.  Don't take my word
>for it - go look it up in the IBC.    This is a building.
>>>>
>>>> SML
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Sprinklerforum
>[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of
>bcasterl...@fsc-inc.com
>>>> Sent: Friday, April 13, 2018 2:07 PM
>>>> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
>>>> Subject: Re: Exterior Play Area
>>>>
>>>> It dosent say those things because it's outside the building Steve.
>>>> It's a shade structure, like you meant. Sprinklers would just make
>a big mess. Open on three sides and non-comb means no life safety issue
>and if that's where it starts it won't get inside before the FD gets
>there. These 12-17 year old Boys and Girls probably started it,
>thinking some Smores sounded good.
>>>>
>>>> Brad
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Quoting Steve Leyton <st...@protectiondesign.com>:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Y'all need to read the definition of "Building" in the Building
>Code:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Any structure used or intended for supporting or sheltering any
>use
>>>> or occupancy."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It doesn't mention walls or doors, it doesn't mention construction
>>>> type or combustibility of materials.  So the area in question IS a
>>>> building.   That by John's description is ATTACHED to another
>>>> (sprinklered) building and is used for occupancy by children where
>>>> there is a measurable fire load (whether or not it is a profound
>fire
>>>> load, there is one).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So once again, from the top:  NFPA 13 doesn't exclude this area
>>>> because it's occupied and has or potentially has combustibles below
>>>> it.  The building code defines it as a building.   Why don't we
>have  
>>>> to sprinkler it?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Steve
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Sprinklerforum
>>>> [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf
>Of
>>>> bcasterl...@fsc-inc.com
>>>> Sent: Friday, April 13, 2018 12:10 PM
>>>> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
>>>> Subject: Re: Exterior Play Area
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I vote no sprinklers required -- open and noncombustible- the
>>>> rockinghorse on a spring is like a newspaper machine - there will
>>>> always be just one of them- not one today and twelve tomorrow.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Brad.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Quoting Steve Leyton <st...@protectiondesign.com>:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 8.15.7.5.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: Sprinklerforum
>>>> [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf
>Of
>>>> John Irwin
>>>> Sent: Friday, April 13, 2018 11:10 AM
>>>> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
>>>> Subject: RE: Exterior Play Area
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I can appreciate your opinion, but I need a code reference.  😉
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> John Irwin
>>>> DynaFire Inc. – “Same Day – Next Day”
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: Sprinklerforum
>>>>
><sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum
>>>> - boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>> On Behalf Of Steve Leyton
>>>> Sent: Friday, April 13, 2018 1:47 PM
>>>> To:
>>>>
>sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerfo...@lists.fi
>>>> r
>>>> esprinkler.org>
>>>> Subject: RE: Exterior Play Area
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Assuming there’s play equipment there (fire load) and knowing that
>>>> there are kids occupying the space, I wouldn’t call this an
>>>> “exterior projection”.   It’s a shad structure with occupancy below
>>>> and IMO requires sprinkler protection.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> SML
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: Sprinklerforum
>>>> [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf
>Of
>>>> John Irwin
>>>> Sent: Friday, April 13, 2018 10:42 AM
>>>> To:
>>>>
>sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerfo...@lists.fi
>>>> r
>>>> esprinkler.org>
>>>> Subject: Exterior Play Area
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Protecting a light hazard Boys and Girls Club. I excluded an
>>>> exterior, but covered, attached and open play area.
>Non-combustible.
>>>> It’s a couple thousand square feet. I excluded using NFPA 13 2013
>>>> 8.15.7
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Client is telling me that he her other fire sprinkler guys telling
>>>> him he needs sprinklers in that areas.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What say you?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [cid:image001.png@01D3D318.846AE470]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> John Irwin
>>>> Fire Sprinkler Specialist
>>>> DynaFire, Inc. – “Same Day – Next Day”
>>>> 727-282-9243 – Cell
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> “A customer is the most important visitor on our premises. He is
>not
>>>> dependent on us. We are dependent on him. He is not an interruption
>>>> on our work. He is the purpose of it. He is not an outsider on our
>>>> business. He is a part of it. We are not doing him a favour by
>>>> serving him. He is doing us a favour by giving us an opportunity to
>do so.”
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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